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Thread: Resident Evil 1 Remastered

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jazz View Post
    It looks like there is upscaling, but not from the original GC backgrounds. These do look like they have been re-rendered because you can pick out finer lines and details.
    Being able to pick out finer details is something upscaling has been able to do for a long time. CAPCOM simply isn't using a very good method compared to, say, some of the more common AviSynth scripts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jazz View Post
    It looks like there is upscaling, but not from the original GC backgrounds. These do look like they have been re-rendered because you can pick out finer lines and details.

    I'm guessing that the backgrounds are rendered at 1440x1080 for the default 4:3 view mode. All the screenshots are from the widescreen mode, which zooms in on these backgrounds, so what you're seeing is a 1440x810 portion of the new1440x1080 background being upscaled to fit 1920x1080.
    i
    I find difficult to upscale a picture of 1440x1080 to a lower resolution, i.e. 1280x720 (actually 1280x980) like the one on the screenshots, and lose details in that way. Also, I demonstrated that an upscale took place, you can't ignore that the wall texture just melted, and a noise dithering algorithm was used by the software that did the upscacle.

    You don't render a picture with that kind of noise on purpose, original renders are noise free, and usually (if you are not dumb) you render at least at double your target rendering resolution, or the exact target resolution. This is just a cheap trick to make more money with already made assets.

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    Whilst we're definitely seeing upscaling artifacts on the HD Remaster backgrounds but it's not possible to ascertain with complete certainty if the backgrounds are from the GC resolution and upscaled or if they have been re-rendered at a higher res and then upscaled when playing in widescreen.

    The released screens also suffer from compression artifacts and fact that they're taken from the widescreen mode suggests that there could be hardware upscaling being added to backgrounds if there were first upscaled or rerendered offline to fit the 4:3 resolution.

    It's a shame we didn't get better media to compare with, ideally full res 4:3 shots or 1080p / next gen shots. That would give us more clues.

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    SonicBlue, sorry about that, I was using the PS4/XBone resolutions, not the X360 / PS3 ones.

    [EDIT] so that would be 960x720 for a 4:3 image. In widescreen mode, you would take a 960x540 chunk of that background and upscale it to 1280x720.

    I don't know the exact resolution for the GC RE1 backgrounds.
    Last edited by Jimmy_Jazz; 08-07-2014 at 11:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Zork View Post
    remake ticks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jazz View Post
    so that would be 960x720 for a 4:3 image. In widescreen mode, you would take a 960x540 chunk of that background and upscale it to 1280x720.

    I don't know the exact resolution for the GC RE1 backgrounds.
    The original backgrounds are rendered at 512x448. The upscaled counterparts would be 1280x1120 in order to keep the weird aspect ratio, then the display area is cropped to 1280x720. The funny thing about this is that they claimed they dismembered the game and are working on it piece by piece - complete marketing BS.
    Last edited by Gemini; 08-07-2014 at 12:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jazz View Post
    Whilst we're definitely seeing upscaling artifacts on the HD Remaster backgrounds but it's not possible to ascertain with complete certainty if the backgrounds are from the GC resolution and upscaled
    Actually, it is. That's exactly the case.
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    Has that been officially confirmed by your connections?

    Whilst it is the most likely scenario, given Capcom's approaches to porting other RE titles to current gen consoles, the educated guesses I've read up until now, based on the current shots, haven't been convincing enough to completely rule out re-renders. Word from Capcom would obviously overrule all of that.

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    Real re-renders would look crisp and with all the details in place, which the screens shown so far lack entirely unless it's a resized picture like those on their official site. Even if they did use a different, uncompressed, higher resolution source, it's still a lousy upscale and we got already two users here obtaining the same exact results with identical artifacts. You don't need official word from CAPCOM to see what they did, but they could always step in with news, redo them for real and pretend the current screenshots were just tests (highly unlikely given what they did with "Ultra" HD RE4 and all their claims about improved visuals). Until then, this is just a lazy port supported by weird claims from whoever is responsible for it.
    Last edited by Gemini; 08-07-2014 at 01:08 PM.

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    #42 Majini Enigmatism415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The original backgrounds are rendered at 512x448. The upscaled counterparts would be 1280x1120 in order to keep the weird aspect ratio, then the display area is cropped to 1280x720. The funny thing about this is that they claimed they dismembered the game and are working on it piece by piece - complete marketing BS.
    Would Capcom developers really be idiotic enough to render their master backgrounds at a resolution as low as 512x448? I concede that I was initially fooled into thinking that these backgrounds weren't upscaled (but rather rosily filtered to obscure the lack of fine details in the aged models), but these images appear to be upscaled from a higher resolution master. If I had to guess, the original 4:3 masters are 800x600 (SVGA) at the very least, and certainly uncompressed.
    Last edited by Enigmatism415; 08-07-2014 at 03:18 PM.

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    I've been wanting an HD port since the PS3/360 era began. I had pretty much abandoned the notion by this point, then boom.

    My favorite game of all time with updated graphics + possible Trophies/Achievements + being able to play it on a console that I actually like = Take my fucking money.

    This does need a physical release though.
    Last edited by REmaster; 08-07-2014 at 03:40 PM.
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    Yeah, I think they still have the PSD with a resolution of at least 800x600, as their picture as slightly sharper than the one you can obtain from the originals from the disc.

    In the PSD they have all the elements that need different treatment separated into layers, as seen here:

    Name:  r213_006.png
Views: 464
Size:  245.3 KB

    Otherwise they couldn't have done this:
    http://www.games969.com/wp-content/u...-Remaster2.jpg

    remove the old plants with new one, the one on the left it's a real time 3D model, the other on the right looks suspicious, they are clearly at a higher resolution than the rest of the background.

    Character textures seems upscaled too, same noise.

    Lazy developers are lazy.

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    It's frustrating, as they clearly still have the 3D data - they used it for Umbrella Chronicles (obviously toned things down for the Wii)
    Laziness...
    still might get this anyway - who knows.

    And for all the RE noobs (from 4 onwards) - if they complain about 'hard' controls and no ammo .. tough. This isn't for them.. it's for the true RE fans of old, who love survival horror. Capcom need to realize this and reboot the series again to suit this instead.
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    They might be testing the waters as most of us expect, or they might just need some quick RE cash to keep people interested in the franchise, who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatism415 View Post
    Would Capcom developers really be idiotic enough to render their master backgrounds at a resolution as low as 512x448? I concede that I was initially fooled into thinking that these backgrounds weren't upscaled (but rather rosily filtered to obscure the lack of fine details in the aged models), but these images appear to be upscaled from a higher resolution master. If I had to guess, the original 4:3 masters are 800x600 (SVGA) at the very least, and certainly uncompressed.
    It's not that they rendered the master background at 512x448. It's that they don't have the master backgrounds or the materials used to create them. I wouldn't consider 800x600 "masters" considering they're simply screenshots of the 3D environments which apparently no longer exist. But it is likely they have at least that resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaccoonSurvivor View Post
    It's frustrating, as they clearly still have the 3D data - they used it for Umbrella Chronicles (obviously toned things down for the Wii)
    Umbrella Chronicles' mansion was a patchwork job. If you look closely, many of the textures are completely different. For the same reason as above. Same case with BIO4 HD. They could have improved the textures quite a bit, but they simply didn't have the original photos the textures were based on-- which several people have tracked down.
    Last edited by News Bot; 08-07-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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    Just thinking about all this upscale background grumbling, didn't see anyone make this note. Going to make a big call on this then. With the exception of the character models, depending on how they're being handled, the backgrounds and game can end up looking better on the previous gen offerings (running 720p rather than 1080p) unless the PS4/XB1 versions offer a switchable display mode between the two resolution options. Thats kinda messed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy_Jazz View Post
    Has that been officially confirmed by your connections?

    Whilst it is the most likely scenario, given Capcom's approaches to porting other RE titles to current gen consoles, the educated guesses I've read up until now, based on the current shots, haven't been convincing enough to completely rule out re-renders. Word from Capcom would obviously overrule all of that.

    Jimmy_Jazz, I don't think you've caught my post from earlier on, me and SonicBlue managed to replicate almost exactly the released screenshot that Capcom did.

    Stop trying to give Capcom credit, they're doing it wrong, they're lying to us, theoretically trying to get more money than they put in, and they are C(r)apcom.

    I'm really trying to see what can be done for them to do this properly! Maybe join the official Capcom forums and make a detailed analyses post so everyone can see? I don't know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Sega View Post
    Jimmy_Jazz, I don't think you've caught my post from earlier on, me and SonicBlue managed to replicate almost exactly the released screenshot that Capcom did.

    Stop trying to give Capcom credit, they're doing it wrong, they're lying to us, theoretically trying to get more money than they put in, and they are C(r)apcom.

    I'm really trying to see what can be done for them to do this properly! Maybe join the official Capcom forums and make a detailed analyses post so everyone can see? I don't know
    Oh wow, you guys should go work for Capcom if you know how to make them look as good.

    There seems to be some confusion about the difference between the old backgrounds and the new backgrounds. I don't think any of you realize how much work it actually takes to program a game. If you had even a little bit of experience modding REmake or RE2 and understood how the game was programmed consequentially, you could see why they are doing what they did.

    1) YES, the new backgrounds are upscaled. But this is not a bad thing, because they actually *do* look better because they are *uncompressed*. They also redid the lighting. Notice how much crisper the new images look, even at the same resolution? You couldn't do this by ripping the data out of the GCN disc. They had to compress the shit out of the backgrounds to get them to fit on two GCN discs. They had to put them on two GCN discs to begin with because there were multiple cutscenes that had alternate camera angles that appeared in the event data at different parts of the game.

    2) Camera panning was already done in Resident Evil 0 and it didn't look bad at all. The reason they did this is because they would be forced to go back into whatever program they made the backgrounds in to begin with, and screenshot them all over again. That's just as much work as redeveloping the game from the ground up and wouldn't even be worth it... Especially since it was an already good-looking game to begin with, and has assets that look just as good as games on a PS3 or PS4. The only way you could polish the stuff even further without having to snapshot every single camera angle over again and program the camera transition data for them, is to redo the character models. Which brings me to...

    3) The character models are completely redone. Prerendered backgrounds with layer masks would eat up none of the VRAM that would be required by full 3D backgrounds like in RE4 (which still has dogshit visuals compared to this btw).

    In conclusion, uncompressed backgrounds + redone character and enemy models = quit complaining about the visuals. They actually do look really good and do the original release justice. Ye of little faith should care more about the game getting released to a new audience that didn't own GCNs or Wiis at the times the games were relevant. Capcom suffered poor sales of this game because it was released on a console that had a completely different install base from the Sony and Sega owners that the games met success with. The scenario design is the game's strong suit, and if Capcom manages to market this game correctly, then it will PROBABLY be used to fund REmake 2. Consider that.

  19. #99
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    Let's just assume that they are 'uncompressed backgrounds', either way they are useless since they are upscaled and denoised so horribly!

    To be perfectly honest, the 3D models didn't need that much of a change since it is the backgrounds that gains the game's reputation and that it is what advocates the game entirely.

    Yes it is nice that they did do that blah, blah, blah, but your 1) and 2) does yell to me laziness. It's not like this is done by one person, this is done by a large group of developers! So your comparison with "experience modding REmake or RE2" is not at all comparable nor is it justified.

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    http://imgur.com/a/bbXgA

    That's your problem, that you think it's lazy. You don't understand that Capcom doesn't have an unlimited budget for this stuff, do you? Big bad company is trying to get money and doesn't care about the fans, boo hoo, the game looks good and what they did with the scenario design is what they want to show people anyway. I'm fucking happy that this release is happening AT ALL because it means the userbase that was alienated during the switch to Nintendo gets to see and experience that aspect of the game. It's a good fucking gesture.
    Last edited by Carcinogen; 08-07-2014 at 07:24 PM.

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