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  • Wesker's Report I Discussion

    Since we now have three different versions of the report (2001, 2003, 2014) I think it's worth reigniting discussion on it. It's probably the most contentious bit of supplemental material in the series.

    Some changes in the 2014 version highlighted by cvxfreak:

    Originally posted by cvxfreak
    A few interesting revisions in Wesker's Report HD:

    - The footage now shows Rebecca participating in the final Tyrant battle during RE1 (reference footage: REmake)

    - Wesker acknowledges that the G-Virus was acquired by Ada (reference footage: Umbrella Chronicles)

    - Wesker acknowledges that Ada saved Leon from Mr. X instead of falling into the pit (reference footage: Darkside Chronicles)

    - Wesker says that Leon and Sherry went under U.S. government protection after RE2 (reference footage: Darkside Chronicles) -- this is a big dialogue change from any previous version so far

    - Claire is shown on Rockfort Island meeting Steve as Wesker mentions her activities after RE2 (reference footage: Darkside Chronicles)
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  • #2
    I allways wondered how -according to the WR- Wesker learned that Ada have meet Leon and started to feel things for him and everything what happened next. I mean, unless Wesker had psychic powers or someone else reporting to him in that place, there's no way to know what the hell was happening in a secret lab buried beneath an isolated town.

    He shouldn't have even know that Leon and Claire existed at that point because he had no intel of what was going on with the mission besides what Ada could report to him, and I highly doubt Ada would tell him: "Look Wesker, I'm sorry but I've fallen in love with a cop dude I just met a few hours ago, and because of that I'm afraid I might not be able to complete the mission. But don't worry, it won't happen again". :O

    The way how Wesker sometimes magically knows everything what's happening everwhere like if he allways had his "mega RE4 interstellar satelite" is quite slack.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Lanzagranadas View Post
      I allways wondered how -according to the WR- Wesker learned that Ada have meet Leon and started to feel things for him and everything what happened next. I mean, unless Wesker had psychic powers or someone else reporting to him in that place, there's no way to know what the hell was happening in a secret lab buried beneath an isolated town.

      He shouldn't have even know that Leon and Claire existed at that point because he had no intel of what was going on with the mission besides what Ada could report to him, and I highly doubt Ada would tell him: "Look Wesker, I'm sorry but I've fallen in love with a cop dude I just met a few hours ago, and because of that I'm afraid I might not be able to complete the mission. But don't worry, it won't happen again". :O

      The way how Wesker sometimes magically knows everything what's happening everwhere like if he allways had his "mega RE4 interstellar satelite" is quite slack.
      Because unlike WR2, it's not a report in the literal sense of the word. It's simply a narration of events that have gone down up until CVX, designed to give the player the canonical version of how the games occurred. It could have been narrated by anyone.
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      • #4
        I think it's a literal report. UC shows that Wesker knew about Leon during the incident, not after.

        Wesker knew about Leon probably because the Umbrella laboratory likely had a lot of cameras installed, just like the Arklay Laboratory. Hacking into the cameras would be amateur to the rival company given their technological capabilities. Then it's just a matter of watching Ada save him from the Tyrant, then going through the R.P.D.'s transfer list or something and boom, he knows who Leon S. Kennedy is.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by News Bot View Post
          I think it's a literal report. UC shows that Wesker knew about Leon during the incident, not after.

          Wesker knew about Leon probably because the Umbrella laboratory likely had a lot of cameras installed, just like the Arklay Laboratory. Hacking into the cameras would be amateur to the rival company given their technological capabilities. Then it's just a matter of watching Ada save him from the Tyrant, then going through the R.P.D.'s transfer list or something and boom, he knows who Leon S. Kennedy is.
          It's possible sure but a bit convenient. If the 'Rival Company' had full access to Umbrella's security and surveillance systems for Raccoon City facilities it negates the prospect of having to send in Ada in the first place to gather Intel on the G-Virus and establish it's progress towards completion. Plus with that kind of advantage, I'm sure the Rival Company could have acquired their own sample with ease.
          I'd also question Ada being so happy to team up with Leon if she knew she was being watched all the time. I'd say it's more likely Wesker knew about Leon because of the other 'Rival Company' agents who were in Raccoon City at the time. We know this because they collected combat data from the Nemesis T-Type and there's also the dead guy in the Apple Inn. Ada could have been observed and they reported back to Wesker. Just the very notion of him hearing she teamed up with a Raccoon City cop could lead to him thinking betrayal and unnecessary jeopardising of her mission.

          I don't think Wesker literally saw what was going down at all, and therefore wouldn't need to know Ada saved Leon from the Tyrant. I really believe his narration in Wesker's Report 1 is just a summary of events for the player's benefit.

          WR2 on the other hand is a tangible document, addressed to Ada that vastly enhances the backstory of the game. The same can be said to a lesser extent of WER.
          Last edited by TheBatMan; 12-01-2014, 10:33 AM.
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          • #6
            The series is general relies on convenience quite a bit.

            You can't really tell if G's close to completion simply through cameras. What do you look out for, Birkin jumping for joy? Umbrella had to have a spy physically take a photo of a "successful" experiment, so it's doubtful there was even a camera in that room. The rival company didn't have any intel on how to get into the underground laboratory just like the U.S. military, which is partially what delayed Ada from otherwise getting a sample easily, on top of the U.S.S. happening to start the seizure operation earlier.

            Nemesis-T wasn't the only B.O.W. the rival company collected combat data on, they also used the same method for G-Birkin. There's no possibility of them having other agents in downtown, clock tower, park, abandoned plant, R.P.D., sewers and underground laboratory etc, there was only Ada and she was mostly indisposed. The only other possibility is that the rival company did the same thing as Umbrella, which was use cameras. It's more convenient and needless for the rival company to have dozens of agents hidden throughout the city than it is to simply watch through cameras we already know were there. We only know of one other person in the city affiliated with the rival company and it's doubtful he was even an agent, considering he blew his brains out quite easily despite there being no real immediate problem.

            Wesker's Report I is a summary but it's still a summary of events that occurred from Wesker's perspective. He still witnessed certain events, and the only real explanation is that he watched via video feeds, which we already know was possible because Umbrella used the same method. "Agents" is also possible, but also pointless and doesn't do much except introduce unnecessary and nonsensical bloat, like Operation Raccoon City. If there was an agent located near Ada who happened be close enough to witness her betrayal, why wouldn't that agent just kill her and Leon and take her place? It doesn't make much sense.

            There's very little difference between WRI, WRII and WER in terms of intention. We don't know why Wesker bothered to make any reports at all since he didn't truly answer to anyone. Him sending the second report to Ada doesn't make much sense either since he didn't fully trust her, it's just convenient.
            Last edited by News Bot; 12-01-2014, 01:50 PM.
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            • #7
              The rival company didn't have any intel on how to get into the underground laboratory
              Which is weird, because Wesker knew that lab like the back of his hand, so he should have told his employers how to break into it quite easily.
              I don't think Ada was "late", she first had to run some errands in town, like meeting Ben Bertolucci and finding Sherry's pendant.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sly View Post
                Which is weird, because Wesker knew that lab like the back of his hand, so he should have told his employers how to break into it quite easily.
                I don't think Ada was "late", she first had to run some errands in town, like meeting Ben Bertolucci and finding Sherry's pendant.
                Wesker only knew the Arklay Laboratory well. We've only seen him in a certain section of the laboratory and he left through the executive training center rather than through its sewer entrance, and the former was destroyed. He could've ended up in Chief Irons' room quite quickly and regrouped with S.T.A.R.S. Alpha Team that way. That's ignoring BIO0 too where he takes the master elevator down to the trains and exited through one of the tunnel doorways that lead somewhere like Raccoon General Hospital. There's also the fact that the laboratory's appearance in BIO0 wasn't intended from the outset. You can either ignore it or assume it's a different facility, which isn't difficult.

                Ada was definitely late, but only in the matter that she and Wesker didn't mobilize until after the U.S.S. had already moved themselves.
                Last edited by News Bot; 12-01-2014, 01:43 PM.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                  The series is general relies on convenience quite a bit.

                  You can't really tell if G's close to completion simply through cameras. What do you look out for, Birkin jumping for joy? Umbrella had to have a spy physically take a photo of a "successful" experiment, so it's doubtful there was even a camera in that room. The rival company didn't have any intel on how to get into the underground laboratory just like the U.S. military, which is partially what delayed Ada from otherwise getting a sample easily, on top of the U.S.S. happening to start the seizure operation earlier.
                  Sure you could. Video footage of experiments, audio transcripts etc. Much better intelligence than what Ada could gather considering her information was 3rd hand anyway and she couldn't even gain access to the lab. But the fact that Umbrella even had to plant a spy inside their own facility to gather G-Virus progress reports would suggest that even they could not hack into the surveillance systems, never mind the 'Rival Company'. Given how paranoid Birkin was at that time with the pressure from the Chicago Branch, I'd say he would make damn sure the possibility of any form of surveillance being hacked would be very low indeed. Hell, I wouldn't even put it past Birkin to deliberately disable all cctv and surveillance just to cover his tracks. Basically, I think the chances of the 'Rival Company' having access to Umbrella's systems are slim to none.

                  Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                  Nemesis-T wasn't the only B.O.W. the rival company collected combat data on, they also used the same method for G-Birkin. There's no possibility of them having other agents in the R.P.D., sewers and underground laboratory, there was only Ada and she was mostly indisposed. The only other possibility is that the rival company did the same thing as Umbrella, which was use cameras. It's more convenient and needless for the rival company to have dozens of agents hidden throughout the city than it is to simply watch through cameras we already know were there. We only know of one other person in the city affiliated with the rival company and it's doubtful he was even an agent, considering he blew his brains out quite easily despite there being no real immediate problem.
                  Wesker's Report I is a summary but it's still a summary of events that occurred from Wesker's perspective. He still witnessed certain events, and the only real explanation is that he watched via video feeds, which we already know was possible because Umbrella used the same method. "Agents" is also possible, but also pointless and doesn't do much except introduce unnecessary and nonsensical bloat, like Operation Raccoon City. If there was an agent located near Ada who happened be close enough to witness her betrayal, why wouldn't that agent just kill her and Leon and take her place? It doesn't make much sense.
                  I'm not suggesting there were legions of agents in Raccoon City, but a small team of individual operatives is highly likely, especially if they are gathering intelligence and combat data on individual creatures. Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they are not there. Exactly the same thing happens on Rockfort and later the Antarctic base when Wesker's men recover Steve's body.
                  I just think its more probable than having Wesker conveniently watching everything via camera from his throne room. If it were that easy to hack systems, then Umbrella would have done exactly the same surely. Why didn't the Chicago branch do it to keep tabs on Birkin? You say the 'Rival Company' had no Intel on the facility, yet they have access to all cctv systems? It makes no sense.

                  And If another agent witnessed Ada teaming up with Leon, why would he kill her? All he's seen is her working with an outsider, no need to bump her off for that. But he'd surely report her actions which would be how Wesker would know and even then it would be pointless to kill her as Wesker ultimately held the keys to her escape from the city at the end of the day. He wants an explanation for her actions first, which is what we see in Death's Door.

                  Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                  There's very little difference between WRI, WRII and WER in terms of intention. We don't know why Wesker bothered to make any reports at all since he didn't truly answer to anyone. Him sending the second report to Ada doesn't make much sense either since he didn't fully trust her, it's just convenient.
                  This is just me speculating but I always interpreted WR2 as his 'interview' if you like to get into the Rival Company. He basically provided them with first hand intel on the complete development history of the t-Virus and the key figures at the top of Umbrella.
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                  • #10
                    Birkin intentionally cut off all access to information on the G-Virus to anyone including the researchers in the underground laboratory. Hence "monopolization" and increasing demands from the Chicago branch for progress reports. But that says nothing about the rival company. There's no reason the rival company would not have access to the same cameras as Umbrella, whether they be the ones in the city or the ones in their facilities. The cameras are all operational in the underground laboratory on September 29.

                    Agents in the city besides Ada isn't likely or unlikely. It's possible that we didn't see some elsewhere, but in terms of the events in the games, there were none. CV isn't a good comparison because we actually see the other agents, albeit in Zombie form with the survivors located elsewhere. And the game actually references them, while none have ever been referenced for the BIO2/BIO3 events despite the ability to do so. They simply don't fit at any point in the games to be able to observe Nemesis-T and G-Birkin at the same time. It's simply far less believable than cameras that we know exist as the primary method of combat data acquisition. The only rival company personnel involved in Raccoon were Ada and Wesker. There's no hint or reference to anyone else, as opposed to several references that cameras were used to collect B.O.W. combat data. I don't see how Wesker observing video feeds is more unbelievable considering it's what he did to get hired by the company in the first place, and it's also how Umbrella obtained combat data in the Mansion Incident despite his betrayal, and if you think Nikolai died, it's also how Umbrella recovered combat data despite all the Monitors being dead. It's also shown in Degeneration.

                    Not only that, but recovering G was solely Wesker's personal mission for his own personal gain, and the only person ever said to be involved is Ada. Or Wesker would've said something to the effect that he sent someone else to monitor her, but this is a goofy notion considering what we see in the games and elsewhere. Meanwhile, BIO4 actually does involve him sending two agents to monitor each other. If it were the case, I doubt they'd have never mentioned anything about it in over ten years. Having intel on a facility's surrounding area and secret access routes is a far cry from being able to access analogue video feeds. We're talking about a company with a portable device to listen into closed radio chatter in the air from several miles away. Technologically there's not a lot of limits to the rival company in the series so far. This explanation happens to kill two birds with one stone, makes the most sense and eliminates potential for contrivances.

                    Why wouldn't another agent kill Ada for betraying the organization if they saw it? Wesker doesn't want an explanation from Ada at all, and she doesn't give him one. He's prepared to leave her to die but she simply pulls out an ace in the hole and makes him reconsider. If there were other agents, he'd have given them the go ahead to kill her. She not only defied orders, but potentially exposed him, his survival, and the company. There's no conceivable reason she'd just get a slap on the wrist, especially considering the fact that the company didn't trust her much to begin with. Why wouldn't he send Ada in with a team then and quadruple the chance of success? He specifically chose Ada because of her skills and because he took a personal interest in her as an individual able to be trusted (at the time), whereas if he, in his lowly position, sent in a team, there'd be a much higher chance of someone on the team betraying him and bringing the virus to the top brass, negating the whole purpose of the mission to use the virus to gain a higher position within the company for himself. Likewise if he'd sent someone to monitor Ada. Why would he send someone loyal to the top brass to monitor someone he himself sent to gain an item that would increase his power against the top brass? Counterproductive.

                    It's really just a matter of a simple explanation against a contrived explanation. I'd thrown the other agents idea around before and it's what I initially imagined when Wesker would say "we", but it just doesn't make much sense given what we know from the games and all supplemental material. The new report goes one step further and changes some of the "we" parts to "Ada."
                    Last edited by News Bot; 12-01-2014, 03:22 PM.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                      Birkin intentionally cut off all access to information on the G-Virus to anyone including the researchers in the underground laboratory. Hence "monopolization" and increasing demands from the Chicago branch for progress reports. But that says nothing about the rival company. There's no reason the rival company would not have access to the same cameras as Umbrella, whether they be the ones in the city or the ones in their facilities. The cameras are all operational in the underground laboratory on September 29.
                      Yeah, I'm well aware of all that, but it seems stupid that the Chicago lab would not simply hack Birkin's lab if the 'Rival Company' were able to do so so easily. And you've answered your own question as to why they would not have access to the same cameras as Umbrella. The 'Rival Company' had absolutely no intelligence on the underground lab or its layout, yet we're suddenly expected to believe Wesker used cameras inside that very same facility to track Leon and Ada's exact movements throughout?

                      Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                      Agents in the city besides Ada isn't likely or unlikely. It's possible that we didn't see some elsewhere, but in terms of the events in the games, there were none. CV isn't a good comparison because we actually see the other agents, albeit in Zombie form with the survivors located elsewhere. And the game actually references them, while none have ever been referenced for the BIO2/BIO3 events despite the ability to do so. They simply don't fit at any point in the games to be able to observe Nemesis-T and G-Birkin at the same time. It's simply far less believable than cameras that we know exist as the primary method of combat data acquisition. The only rival company personnel involved in Raccoon were Ada and Wesker. There's no hint or reference to anyone else, as opposed to several references that cameras were used to collect B.O.W. combat data. I don't see how Wesker observing video feeds is more unbelievable considering it's what he did to get hired by the company in the first place, and it's also how Umbrella obtained combat data in the Mansion Incident despite his betrayal, and if you think Nikolai died, it's also how Umbrella recovered combat data despite all the Monitors being dead. It's also shown in Degeneration.
                      I think CV is a perfectly reasonable comparison in all fairness. There's no evidence of any agents in the South Pole facility at all and it would be very reasonable to assume Wesker travelled there alone once he discovered where Alexia was and after what happened to his men on Rockfort. But yet he obviously had others there with him all along. Raccoon City is a big place after all.
                      I don't have an issue with Wesker monitoring cameras in the city, I'm sure he did so. But to monitor all cameras inside Umbrella's hidden facility when all evidence points to the contrary? We know they had no prior Intel on the facility, they had little information on the G-Virus etc etc. All that seems nonsensical if they had access to the internal cameras all along. If there were more agents in the city, who is to say one of their objectives wasn't to set up more surveillance equipment and cameras so Wesker or other 'Rival Company' supervisory agents could observe?

                      Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                      Not only that, but recovering G was solely Wesker's personal mission for his own personal gain, and the only person ever said to be involved is Ada. Or Wesker would've said something to the effect that he sent someone else to monitor her, but this is a goofy notion considering what we see in the games and elsewhere. Meanwhile, BIO4 actually does involve him sending two agents to monitor each other. If it were the case, I doubt they'd have never mentioned anything about it in over ten years. Having intel on a facility's surrounding area and secret access routes is a far cry from being able to access analogue video feeds. We're talking about a company with a portable device to listen into closed radio chatter in the air from several miles away. Technologically there's not a lot of limits to the rival company in the series so far. This explanation happens to kill two birds with one stone, makes the most sense and eliminates potential for contrivances.
                      Yeah, I have no doubt that Ada was a sole operative working under Wesker. He was new to the organisation at that time and would wield little power in the grand scheme of things at that stage. Still doesn't mean other agents were not in town under someone else's orders though. I'm not saying it's fact, its simply another explanation as to how he knew what was going on in the city. I'm sure the 'Rival Company' had their own equivalent of Monitors at the end of the day. The explanation for technology is just far too convenient and again, if they could do it, why couldn't Umbrella when keeping tabs on Birkin?

                      Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                      Why wouldn't another agent kill Ada for betraying the organization if they saw it? Wesker doesn't want an explanation from Ada at all, and she doesn't give him one. He's prepared to leave her to die but she simply pulls out an ace in the hole and makes him reconsider. If there were other agents, he'd have given them the go ahead to kill her. She not only defied orders, but potentially exposed him, his survival, and the company. There's no conceivable reason she'd just get a slap on the wrist, especially considering the fact that the company didn't trust her much to begin with. Why wouldn't he send Ada in with a team then and quadruple the chance of success? He specifically chose Ada because of her skills and because he took a personal interest in her as an individual able to be trusted (at the time), whereas if he, in his lowly position, sent in a team, there'd be a much higher chance of someone on the team betraying him and bringing the virus to the top brass, negating the whole purpose of the mission to use the virus to gain a higher position within the company for himself. Likewise if he'd sent someone to monitor Ada. Why would he send someone loyal to the top brass to monitor someone he himself sent to gain an item that would increase his power against the top brass? Counterproductive.
                      But he did want an explanation. If he was ready to just let her die he would not have made contact with her at the Apple Inn in the first place. He was under the impression she had failed to gather a G-Virus sample because she had chosen to help Leon instead - again another fact that would be negated if he was watching the cameras inside the facility and knew exactly what was happening. He would already know she had a sample. But it's only when she informs him she recovered a fragment of Birkin's tissue does he authorise her escape.

                      And say hypothetically she did fail to get a sample and did betray him, why bother sending someone to kill her when he could just let her die in the explosion? He is the one who makes her aware of the missile after all.
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                      • #12
                        The Chicago branch could've used the cameras. Nothing stopping them. They just don't benefit them in any way. You can't use the cameras to assess the G-Virus. Wesker uses them to monitor G-Birkin and Ada. The additional agent explanation is convenient, but it's also contrived unlike the cameras. Umbrella did keep tabs on Birkin, but simply staring at the guy doesn't do anything. How are Umbrella or the rival company supposed to use the cameras to learn about G? Zoom and enhance some stray document or go right down into the molecular structure of a sample of the virus like in CSI Miami? The laboratory's cameras can be physically seen in the games, so we know for a fact there were cameras throughout and all were active. The fact that Umbrella needed a physical spy to take a photo in one particular room indicates that particular room either just didn't have a camera, or was completely disabled by Birkin out of secrecy.

                        It's entirely possible that the rival company's top brass had agents in the city. However, nobody but Wesker and Ada knew about the G-Virus seizure mission, and the only person under Wesker's command was Ada. On top of that, none of these agents appear in the games. Thus their existence is entirely hypothetical, in the exact same manner you could claim that a Delta Force member survived the Tyrant attack. Nothing suggests as such, so while hypothetically possible, they don't exist. They need to be supported by something first, and in this case they aren't supported by anything.

                        No H.C.F. agents are seen in the Antarctic Base because they're in a submarine in an area inaccessible until the end cutscenes. Their presence in the base is still made obvious with the Hunter II's, Sweepers and remote surveillance devices deployed also. No evidence points to Wesker not using the laboratory's cameras, all evidence supports it.
                        The only nonsensical suggestion is that agents were all over the city in the exact same areas you go through in the games, somehow skulking in the background doing nothing, not working with Wesker yet somehow knowing everything about the mission. You're also forgetting that, if we take BIO0 and UC at face value, Wesker has been in the underground laboratory. He already knew the layout to an extent. However, he didn't know about the secret routes to the sewers, R.P.D. or hospital. There's absolutely no reason for him to use the executive training center route unless he didn't know anything about the other routes, which given Birkin's paranoia and the laboratory's general secrecy, is entirely possible.

                        Wesker didn't want an explanation from Ada. There's no way to infer this from the dialouge. He knew she survived so he kept the line open to assess the damage, or the meeting just happened to take place after Wesker and the other fellow were having a conversation and the other guy blew his brains out. It doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. All it takes is one missing camera for him not to see her obtain the sample. Convenient, but not contrived, and certainly not enough to prove that he didn't use the underground laboratory's cameras.

                        Wesker: "He chose death out of despair over the situation. He was a weak man."
                        Ada: "...Wesker..."
                        Wesker: "You too, Ada... I'm disappointed. Your betrayal with that man Leon will inflict quite a bit of damage to the organization."
                        Ada: "See? It's a tissue fragment of G Birkin."
                        Wesker: "...Although you made a mistake, your skills are valuable... Ada, I'll give you two bits of intelligence. One... A strategic missile will soon be fired into Raccoon. The town will completely vanish. Two... An Umbrella executive will be escaping the town in a helicopter. There's no other way out of the town if you miss this opportunity."
                        Ada: "......"
                        Wesker: "If you accept, survive. The G tissue fragment is required."
                        Wesker even sees HUNK escape the city with the G-Virus and also knows exactly which sample he took. This too might be something Ada reported to him, but that can't be confirmed. The only possibilities are that Wesker saw it or heard it from Ada after she attempted to get the sample. The only alternative is that some agent was doing quite a lot of running and somehow managed to not only avoid Leon, Claire, Ada, G-Birkin and Sherry (if the agent was there, why didn't he go for Sherry who was unconscious?), but also avoided getting his neck snapped by HUNK.
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                        • #13
                          I don't see how viewing cameras in a laboratory where experiments were taking place would not be beneficial? Sure they might not tell them everything but they would sure give a pretty good idea of how far along development was and what kind of security protocols were in place. I'm sure the Chicago branch would have benefited enormously by seeing exactly what Birkin was up to in his lab after he'd stopped checking in with them. Same goes for the 'Rival Company'. Live feed footage of what was happening inside would be a hell of a lot better than Ada hearing off a scientist that it was nearly complete.

                          To be honest I fail to see how having agents in the city is any more contrived than Wesker using cameras to track their progress throughout when conveniently the camera in the room where the G-Virus experiments were taking place was down, as was the camera in the room where Ada got her G-Virus sample from Birkin so Wesker wouldn't know.

                          The existence of agents in the city is not hypothetical either. Ada was due to meet with at least one, and combat data was being collected on the B.O.W.s, likely by others and/or cameras. There's no more evidence over one for the other. I'm not suggesting Leon and Ada were followed throughout the entirity of Bio2, I'm simply suggesting it's a possibility they were seen together at one point, enough for questions to be asked.

                          You also talk about things being hypothetical, but you come out with plenty yourself. Only Wesker and Ada know about the G-Virus seizure mission? I very much doubt that. The 'Rival Company' knew about G before Wesker even formally joined them. It makes sense that he be placed in charge of any retrieval op because of his first hand knowledge of Birkin and Umbrella, but I very much doubt nobody higher up didn't know about it or authorise it... He'd only been with the organisation a few months by that point, and joined with a failed reuptation following the mansion incident, therefore logic dictates he would not be given free range on such an important mission.
                          You say also Wesker didn't know about the lab's sewer connections, or route to the R.P.D.? All evidence points to the contrary. Umbrella's own man in S.T.A.R.S., yet does not know about this route from the police station?. Also the same man who worked in Umbrella's own Intelligence Bureau at the time the lab was constructed and had been seen in previous games wandering around inside said lab? Come on... The fact he visits the training facility is a non issue. They wanted a Wesker level for the Zero portion of the game. It's as simple as that.

                          He didn't want an explanation from Ada yet left the line open to assess the damage? What does that even mean? What damage? He left the line open because he wanted to know why she betrayed him, it's blatantly obvious.

                          Hunk is another one now that you bring him up. I suppose there are cameras in the sewers, R.P.D. and the helipad now?

                          At the end of the day, all this debate has done is cemented my belief in what I said right at the start. Wesker's Report 1 is just a summary of events for the player's benefit. Nothing more.
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                          • #14
                            You're also forgetting that, if we take BIO0 and UC at face value, Wesker has been in the underground laboratory. He already knew the layout to an extent. However, he didn't know about the secret routes to the sewers, R.P.D. or hospital. There's absolutely no reason for him to use the executive training center route unless he didn't know anything about the other routes, which given Birkin's paranoia and the laboratory's general secrecy, is entirely possible.
                            How wouldn't he know that, when even Irons knew about the sewer's path ? Wesker's position in Umbrella's Intelligence Division should have given him access to such intel, if he didn't already know that beforehand.
                            There's no reason for him to use the URC route, just like there's no reason for him to go back to the mansion in Rebirth 2 to fight Lisa a second time, when he could have just escaped in the woods as soon as he got out of the hidden elevator in the fountain. In both cases it's just there for gameplay reasons, to drag out the game some more.

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                            • #15
                              Most viral "experiments" take place under a microscope, rendering any camera viewing pointless. Unless you mean administration experiments, in which case we've already established that nobody could view that particular room. Doesn't benefit anybody. You're just watching a guy walk around, maybe occasionally fist bumping his wife.

                              Convenience is not contrivance. The agents are contrived because you need to insert them into a situation hypothetically and yet still they don't make sense.

                              We don't know who Ada was meeting with. He is never described as an agent, only a "contact." He could be a civilian for all we know, if Wesker did things by proxy which, given that the purpose of the mission was to serve only himself without involving the rival company, he would have. Combat data was collected by Wesker via cameras and maybe Ada via observation, still no agents. Wesker was out for himself and nobody else. Having the combat data of Nemesis-T and G-Birkin along with the G-Virus would've elevated him, which was his whole modus operandi. That would not work if he involved anyone else besides Ada. Wesker doesn't share his spoils. He uses them for personal power first and foremost.

                              The rival company knew about the existence of G. But its completion status and the seizure operation (the latter maybe not since the rival company had agents in the U.S. government) were known only to Wesker and Ada since they were the only ones actively involved once Ada heard about Birkin's refusal to hand it over. Nobody placed Wesker in charge. He actively seeks it out on his own. He would've done it himself but employed Ada to avoid exposing himself when he was supposed to be dead. He intended to save Birkin and the G-Virus and bring them into the rival company as gifts, just as he planned with the Tyrant. Involving more people only risks exposing himself and his goals, at which point he'd be ousted from the company. There's no reference anywhere to him being ordered to do it, and he is referred to as Ada's employer in the incident, the only time he's ever been asked to do anything is in CODE:Veronica... where he is hired, not ordered. He could've flatly refused but had always been interested in t-Veronica.

                              The rest of his activities are entirely independent and self-serving to take control of the rival company, which was his intention even before he joined them. It's why he put up with Umbrella and waited for a golden opportunity rather than join them outright. He wanted an opportunity where he'd be in a position to immediately leverage power and buy himself a top position from which he could gain more and more power, incidentally fulfilling his whole philosophy ("The greater power takes control of more power"). Giving t-Veronica to Javier, stealing the Umbrella Archive, giving the Umbrella Archive and viruses to Excella, even agreeing to seize t-Veronica, etc. All for his own benefit. He cared for no one but himself and saw the rival company's top brass as nothing but obstacles and competitors. That's part of why he was angry at S.T.A.R.S., he was forced to operate under individuals that were beneath him.

                              The mission to recover the Plaga was also entirely his own doing. While the rival company was aware and involved in investigating the parasite this time unlike in 1998, Wesker was the one to organize an independent recovery mission and deliberately sent only an agent loyal to him to do the work, then brought in another he felt he could control. The rival company would not have let him run the mission if it were up to them, but it was Wesker's operation. That's why Archives II separates Wesker ("The 3rd Organization") and the rival company ("a different organization"). They weren't working together at this point, and actively working against each other. Ada was the fulcrum of a seesaw both here and in Raccoon City, although not really the latter since the rival company was not actively involved.

                              According to BIO0 and UC, Wesker did not know about Irons' secret passage. Otherwise you would imagine he would cut time and avoid danger from not only out of control B.O.W.s, but also avoid being blown to bits in a facility he knew would explode at any moment. Wanting a BIO0 level with Wesker is fine but at the end of the day it's still tied to the plot, it's not another magic elevator situation. There needs to be a reason. Convenient, but as I said, the series relies on it quite a bit. None of what I said is hypothetical since it's all laid out and merely relies on a bit of connect-the-dots. Whether the end result is convenient or not is splitting hairs at this point.

                              Why wouldn't there be cameras in the sewers? We're not talking about the London sewers here. The R.P.D. has cameras too, there's even a monitor in the S.T.A.R.S. Office, incidentally on a device supplied by Umbrella... who had access to every camera in the city and were bribing the Mayor and Chief of Police. Not a stretch to imagine the heliport had a camera too. Why wouldn't a police station have cameras?

                              Originally posted by Sly View Post
                              How wouldn't he know that, when even Irons knew about the sewer's path ? Wesker's position in Umbrella's Intelligence Division should have given him access to such intel, if he didn't already know that beforehand.
                              There's no reason for him to use the URC route, just like there's no reason for him to go back to the mansion in Rebirth 2 to fight Lisa a second time, when he could have just escaped in the woods as soon as he got out of the hidden elevator in the fountain. In both cases it's just there for gameplay reasons, to drag out the game some more.
                              Irons was the one who had to use it, not Wesker. He doesn't know everything, it's irrelevant what Umbrella division he worked for. There's plenty he never knew about. Otherwise... Wesker would've used it... or told Ada "just use the secret passage behind the Chief's Office." Gameplay reasons or not, it's tied into the plot unlike most other gameplay aspects. It's not exclusive to UC either, in BIO0 he takes a completely different route, still not to the Chief's office.

                              The whole point of secret passages is to be secret. Even to sunglasses wearing megalomaniacs that hate humans.
                              Last edited by News Bot; 12-01-2014, 07:37 PM.
                              PROJECT Umbrella - The BIOHAZARD/RESIDENT EVIL Compendium

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