Will future Resident Evil tiltes return to survival horror?

[News Bot]

I explained what I meant by technically and it had nothing to do with the argument at the time, it was a separate point altogether. Nice try.

Beta scripts are relevant in the series because they contain details that are still part of the final product, but in greater detail. They don't always wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. I explained this too. The properties of the Progenitor Virus in the scrapped BIO4 scenarios are the same as BIO5, except with even more detail. Even 1.5's script contains elements that are still found in BIO2, but on a more subliminal level. There are countless cases like this throughout the series. Your ignorance doesn't affect them.

You're still full of shit.

[Guest]

I explained what I meant by technically and it had nothing to do with the argument at the time, it was a separate point altogether. Nice try.

Beta scripts are relevant in the series because they contain details that are still part of the final product, but in greater detail. They don't always wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. I explained this too. The properties of the Progenitor Virus in the scrapped BIO4 scenarios are the same as BIO5, except with even more detail. Even 1.5's script contains elements that are still found in BIO2, but on a more subliminal level. There are countless cases like this throughout the series. Your ignorance doesn't affect them.

You're still full of shit.

[Lanzagranadas]

[News Bot]

The lame images are tiresome and only prove that neither of you have anything to offer.

[Rombie]

What's LiN?

Lost In Nightmares, the RE5 DLC with Chris and Jill in the Spencer Estate.

There were some good camera work in CV, but it was let down by keeping the player at the centre of the screen and not doing anything interesting to frame the action around the player. I don't like other dynamic cameras, such as REMaster scrolling or even 3.5's Hookman's cameras, when they significantly lag behind player movement. I wonder if you could use dynamic FoV based on player rotation to keep relevant action in view.

3rd person cameras are still not a 100% great in a wide variety of action adventure titles that rely on them. Given their tendancy to rely upon them, I don't see Capcom doing a RE title without anything like the RE4-onwards-system ever again unless someone else reinvents the wheel on it sadly.

I think it's also time we brought in a squad of fresh characters. Both RE1 & 3 had drama by having teams that were slowly decreasing in size, albeit in different ways, and the addition of being able to give supplies over to them to keep them alive would add a great dynamic to survival horror whilst adding re playability and a more open ended story.

I can agree. Add into this an idea of an quazi-open world city to be stranded in and have to escape out of (imagine the idea of something akin to Raccoon City where the path wasn't directly set) and you'd have me very interested. But it's all probably too much expectations to have.

--

Just to ask about the beta text Bats, is that content specific to the power room or is it from the lab areas. I could imagine had you been able to check Wesker after Barry conked him on the head it might say 'He's unconscious' - of course the finished game never gave you the chance as it automatically moves you on... but of course that wouldn't be relevant to that possibility if the text is specific to the room it appears in. But if it was and it's from a beta and thing they changed where you didn't automatically get moved onto the Tyrant lab it could have been possible it was intended for that. Just saying.

[News Bot]

The text is specific to the power room. It's in the same spot where the retail line is.

[Rombie]

The text is specific to the power room. It's in the same spot where the retail line is.

Cheers NB. All good. I was just looking over the list you were discussing earlier and it was the only one on there I could see with any possible alternative use if the line was not specific to the Power Room. As it is, I will just leave you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Sly]

The developers didn't think it was. It's irrelevant what is explored by the game because the game literally doesn't matter outside of "S.T.A.R.S. went to the mansion and were betrayed by their Captain into fighting biological weapons." That's all that matters until later games. I think I recall someone musing about who set off the self destruct system in BIO1. According to BIO3, it was neither Wesker or Rebecca.

That certainly wasn't a possibility in any of BIO1's paths. Degeneration depicts Claire running through Raccoon's streets with a shotgun and fighting Zombies with Leon. Also not a possibility in any of BIO2's paths (but a possibility in Darkside Chronicles!). So on and so forth, there are several examples, including Leon throwing away Sherry's pendant which is not a "problem", just a very literal combination of two events from Leon A/B (in Leon B Ada recovers the pendant but Leon takes it from her body and throws it away, which he does with Annette in Leon A). How is the C card only a weak move when I do it but it's the only argument most people here have? Haha.

Underwhelming. You didn't answer any of my questions, all the while making inane comparisons and cheap shots.

- What you say makes no sense and you did not answer the question. Since your basic synopsis is so vague, then I guess Richard coming back in RE2 would never have been a problem. Or making Wesker a good guy who did not want to obey Umbrella and instead helped the STARS in the end out of regret. You know, since his treason is only revealed in the game, and the game has nothing canon in it, then it's all well and good, we can do everything we like in sequels. Nonsense.

- The fact is that the reason used to blow up the mansion is the same one Rebecca used to convince Chris. In the end, the STARS did it, not Wesker. So the writers clearly made their choice here. The "Chris and I" thing does not contradict the fact that Rebecca set it off, because it was a decision made in agreement with the others. But none of them pushed the final button, Rebecca did.

- Claire using a shotgun ? Seriously ? Must have been the weakest argument in the whole thread, haha. Still not a contradiction because a) Claire was in Raccoon City, b) Leon too, c) they met in town, d) there were shotguns all over the place. So the possibility of her using a shotgun and fighting alongside Leon is concrete, even if she does not in the game, for pure gameplay reasons not pertaining to the plot at all (there is never a cutscence or even a single event message when you pick up a weapon, after all). In any case, weapons used by the characters are totally irrelevant to the plot except for very specific cases like rocket launchers and the Linear Launcher, for example. You totally miss the point here.

- I will admit though that the pendant problem can be resolved, by applying the same logic.
a) Sherry does have the pendant and Ada picks it up at one point, b) the pendant is thrown by someone, c) Leon throws away the G-virus, d) Hunk recovers the G-virus. However, the fact that the pendant is actually thrown by Claire for a totally different reason (not out of spite or anger, but to lure away the Tyrant) still makes me tick. Let's just say I'm picky and move on.

- Are you really going to avoid this question with a cheap sidestep like that ? You are better than that. Please answer me honestly. Do you really believe this is just a coincidence if Zombie Forest appears in both DC and REmake but not the original ?

BIO2 does have a canon--- all four scenarios. Annette dies in all of them. Still incomparable to Wesker because BIO1 legitimately has no canon, and the events as depicted are next to meaningless.

This is madness. How can you say this with a straight face, I don't know.
So now everything in RE2 is canon but nothing in RE1 is ? It's either both or none, there is no reason to treat them differently at all. At least you did not provide any.

As far as canon goes, some of Darkside Chronicles' events are actually clarification to make the inner motivations of some characters in the original story more clear. Annette's actions are different for that reason:

Darkside Chronicles does not clarify anything as it is no more canon than RE2. Conversely, it straight up contradicts Annette's behaviour in the original game, in which she was a mad woman barking at the player because she believed they had killed G-William (still calling him "her husband") and raving about her "husband's legacy". It did not make any sense to change it and make her a "good guy" trying to undo her husband's mistakes by killing him herself and calling the G-virus a monumental failure, when it was the total opposite in the original. That is the most distasteful thing DSC did to RE2, and a clear-cut case of contradiction - thankfully, Chronicles retellings are worthless and should be treated as such.

[News Bot]

Yes, Richard could've come back. Any of Bravo Team could have. Wesker's motives could've had other meanings too. They could do literally whatever they wanted. Obviously they went with within reason. Sugimura chose to stay as faithful as possible because he was a fan of the game, but Katoh and Kamiya were liberal because they were behind the game's design plan and knew how the scenario played out--- open-ended and meaning little at face value. None of the events were concrete or set in stone.

So now even though the text clearly states "Chris and I", it just has to be Rebecca. Huh. Of course they use the same reasoning, what other reason is there to destroy the place where a metric fuckton of evidence incriminating the world's largest pharmaceutical company lies? Incidentally there is absolutely no source that ever states Rebecca, Wesker or anyone else set it off. Only Chris and Jill. The game doesn't have a "what you see is what you get" canon. Rebecca's scene is nothing more than a stand-in to justify the system's activation. You talk a lot about having things both ways but it applies much more to you than it does to me. Why does the game get a free pass with the impossible event paths seen in it yet when it comes to specific events you are completely unwilling to accept that they didn't happen?

You missed the point. The shotgun isn't the problem. Leon & Claire fighting through the streets together was the problem. That is not a gameplay element, that is the opening scene of BIO2. BIO2 still has a malleable scenario. That's just how it was designed, and like BIO1, it also suffered from limitations. Thus the developers do not use them as a 1:1 reference.

I say it with a straight face because it's true, the developers have stated as much and I've seen as much in development material. The games are treated differently because they are fundamentally different by design. BIO1 is incomplete and has no canon at all, being utterly reliant on later material to dictate it. BIO2 has a canon that incorporates four scenarios into a single correct path that can't be achieved in the game itself, and any additional information dictated by later material, with everything else being alternative. BIO1 doesn't have a correct path in general, there is no outcome or path in the game that makes even the slightest bit of sense when looked at in retrospect.

The pendant isn't a problem at all. It's just perhaps the biggest example of the game's four scenario canon in action. It's a very literal mixture that isn't very strict. Ada takes the pendant, Leon takes it from her, throws the pendant away, HUNK finds pendant.

Not a sidestep at all. You asked, I answered in full. A lot of things spread across DC/DS/remake were in the game's original design plan but not implemented due to time constraints. Zombie Forest was probably one. No impact on Wesker, just like DS's "new" puzzles.

DC contradicts Annette because it's able to, since it has no bearing on the original story. Same with Alexia. They exaggerate aspects of each character's personality to show what they were truly like. Annette was half-mad but still cared more for her living daughter than her mutant husband, as in BIO2. Her desire to continue G-Virus development is still in DC, as it's the reason Annette calls Sherry and asks her to bring the pendant. She does not call G a failure in the Japanese version:

As long as G's there... But we were wrong. Even if compatible with G, you’ll merely become a monster manipulated by the virus. Our research was wrong! Now the virus' characteristics merely demand propagation, and genetic information close to the host so it can create strong offspring.

The reason she says this is because G was incomplete. Even Birkin injecting himself was the product of him gambling with whether it would work or not. hoping it would heal him and make him superhuman (as was their intention for the virus). It didn't, so William and Annette were wrong about it.

[Renard]

- Claire using a shotgun ? Seriously ? Must have been the weakest argument in the whole thread, haha. Still not a contradiction because a) Claire was in Raccoon City, b) Leon too, c) they met in town, d) there were shotguns all over the place. So the possibility of her using a shotgun and fighting alongside Leon is concrete, even if she does not in the game, for pure gameplay reasons not pertaining to the plot at all (there is never a cutscence or even a single event message when you pick up a weapon, after all). In any case, weapons used by the characters are totally irrelevant to the plot except for very specific cases like rocket launchers and the Linear Launcher, for example. You totally miss the point here.

[Sly]

- Then, with all due respect, Katoh and Kamiya don't know shit about storytelling. It's a good thing Sugimura was there to smack some sense back in the series and its directors.

- Chris and Jill can't both activate the system. Only one of them has to. Or are you suggesting they both pushed the same button at the same time just so they could say later "we both did it" ? Consequently, the "Chris and I" line refers to the decision making, not the actual triggering. Therefore, anyone could have pushed the button, even Barry, but the more likely choice is Rebecca for reasons that would be obvious to anyone but you.

- If the "how" is not the problem, then there is no problem. Leon & Claire technically did fight together in the streets, from the moment they met at the backdoor of the restaurant until the police car crashed. Still no contradiction there. They are not fleeing, they are retreating ! :p

- Thanks for answering. So it's not a coincidence, but A) the developers had access to beta knowledge and could have used it to correct mistakes, such as Wesker's corpse in the power room. Interestingly enough, DC was made when the game had already been established as a big hit, so hinting at Wesker's survival at that precise moment would have become much more pertinent and convenient in order to tease about sequels. But they chose not to. I don't know about you, but I think it's odd.

- I see we can both agree on Chronicles retellings then. Difference is, I think they were handled very poorly, to say the least. What's your opinion about them ? All objectivity aside.

[News Bot]

Katoh and Kamiya aren't writers, they're game developers. Just like Mikami. It's a game series first and foremost, and I agree that the storytelling could be done better. I have gripes with almost every story in the series barring perhaps BIO3, which I think is about as perfect as it gets on all fronts.

They can, and canonically they all regroup in the laboratory anyway. It says they did it, not that they decided it. I'll admit that's being pedantic but there's no reason for it to be Rebecca, either. She only does it in Chris' scenario for the obvious reason that there is nobody else to do it and it would break the flow if Chris did it.

This is actually how I look at it. But the point was that it's proof that BIO2's events are also not to be taken as you physically see them.

A lot about this series is odd. There are story details that are just sort of lost in the ether even though they are important.

I think the retellings are trash, to be blunt. Very unimaginative. I liked how Game of Oblivion handled Wesker though.

[Sly]

That is why stories should be entrusted to writers and gameplay to game designers. See what Mikami did with RE4's story. Urgh.
I can agree to some extent with you about RE3. I feel it is the most realistic one, and its simplistic plot is its greatest strength.

I'm with you about Wesker in DSC. The ending to Game of Oblivion is the one redeeming quality of the game, as far as retellings are concerned. Well that, and the fact that Steve was more likable. All the changes brought to Annette, Alexia (still can't get over her murdering Alfred, I HATED that), Ada (that lipstick, come ON) just suck hairy balls.

[Grem]

I have gripes with almost every story in the series barring perhaps BIO3, which I think is about as perfect as it gets on all fronts.

As much as I love RE3, it is far from perfect. All background information are good, but the game doesn't fit well with the progression of the series narratively speaking. RE1 -> RE2 -> RECV feels like a natural progression from a narrative point of view. Adding RE3 to the mix is odd. It starts before RE2 and ends after it.

And if we take only the game into account and not the background information, I've got the impression that the story is not important except for the ending. It's like it's obligatory to play RE3 only for the destruction of Raccoon City at the end.

I like this progression : RE1 -> RE2 -> RECV -> RE0 -> Dark legacy -> RE5 (-> REV2 maybe ?? haha). You discover the origins of Umbrella and all its key members as the story progresses. RE3 breaks this.

[News Bot]

As much as I love RE3, it is far from perfect. All background information are good, but the game doesn't fit well with the progression of the series narratively speaking. RE1 -> RE2 -> RECV feels like a natural progression from a narrative point of view. Adding RE3 to the mix is odd. It starts before RE2 and ends after it.

And if we take only the game into account and not the background information, I've got the impression that the story is not important except for the ending. It's like it's obligatory to play RE3 only for the destruction of Raccoon City at the end.

I like this progression : RE1 -> RE2 -> RECV -> RE0 -> Dark legacy -> RE5 (-> REV2 maybe ?? haha). You discover the origins of Umbrella and all its key members as the story progresses. RE3 breaks this.

BIO3 fits fine in that progression. It deals directly with Umbrella's response to S.T.A.R.S. (Nemesis-T) and Raccoon City's outbreak (U.B.C.S., Monitors) and it also formally implicates the US Government's illicit involvement, which directly ties in later to Degeneration and BIO6. The game's purpose was to explain BIO2's leftovers and give closure to Raccoon City. If you're going to talk about Umbrella's origins and key members, you'd need to include The Wicked North Sea novel too. The Beardsley family's involvement is the main reason the company rose so quickly, for example.

The progression of the series is pretty natural when viewed as a whole. That said, there are a few games that would've made it progress even better had they been released.