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  • #91
    Originally posted by TheBatMan View Post
    The in-game compass? Is that honestly the best you can come up with? The pictures don't lie. They are fact, not theory. You don't like it, it's not really my problem. And you're wrong again. It's not two identical save rooms, it's three. Three sheds built the same, therefore three identical layouts. And the issue is what exactly?

    I suggest you come back only when you have something to say, like with even just one small fragment of evidence to support your own theory, even though you've already admitted you've made it up.
    So one for Zero, one for Outbreak and one for RE2? Wat....

    Comment


    • #92
      To me, they're different facilities. There's enough to support this notion and little to say they must be the same. I can take a small industrial zone in the mountains. That's the only way I can reconcile its existence in 0 and UC. But in terms of writing about the story, I'll never mention it-- in that regard the training facility is connected directly to the treatment plant.

      The T-001 wasn't released by anyone. It was being chemically disposed of in some unseen area (it emerges from the collapsed roof behind the shutter) but its vitality enabled it to survive, wake up and break free. Tyrants are significantly stronger than gameplay lets on. Also, Birkin doesn't mention destroying the training center:

      まあいい
      だが ヤツはこのまま放っておけん
      幸い 地下施設には自爆装置がある
      面倒なことになる前に
      まとめて消えてもらうさ

      So be it.
      But I can't leave him like this.
      Luckily, there's a self-destruct system for the underground facility.
      Before things gets worse, I'll wipe him out with it.
      He blows up the treatment plant, and with it, anything connected to it... which means the training center and his laboratory. The "magic elevator" explanation only accounts for its inexplicable connection to the training center, not the laboratory. The Kaitai Shinsho guide also says that Birkin backed up the research data from the 0 laboratory. If it were his he wouldn't need to do such a thing.

      As for the sheds, the one in 0 is not the same as the one in 2 and OB. It's actually numbered differently. And OB shows that the turntable... turns, since the survivors use it to travel elsewhere by driving it like a train. Also if we are to consider that the laboratory is connected to the treatment plant, this still doesn't work as the treatment plant is akin to a cave in the mountains, while the laboratory is directly under the city. There's no way they can be connected if it's the real BIO2 lab.

      Basically the 0 lab exists in a weird vacuum and shouldn't be taken as anything but an easter egg.

      Birkin's laboratory is specifically located in the "vacant lot of the chemical plant." So while it's located close to an active facility, the specific lot is empty. This isn't mentioned in the English version.

      Originally posted by Project Umbrella Translation
      More than ever, now's the time to be cautious. Chris has been sniffing around our locations. In particular, watch him carefully to make sure he never comes near the vacant lot of the chemical plant.
      Originally posted by Official English Transcript
      It is imperative that we proceed with extreme caution. Redfield and the remaining S.T.A.R.S. members are still attempting to uncover information on the project. Continue to monitor their activities and block all attempts to investigate the underground research facilities.
      Meaning a sizeable amount of Raccoon's population would've heard the immense explosions under and above ground. More reasons why the laboratory in 0 and UC simply cannot exist.
      Last edited by News Bot; 08-07-2015, 10:21 AM.
      PROJECT Umbrella - The BIOHAZARD/RESIDENT EVIL Compendium

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by News Bot View Post
        To me, they're different facilities. There's enough to support this notion and little to say they must be the same. I can take a small industrial zone in the mountains. That's the only way I can reconcile its existence in 0 and UC. But in terms of writing about the story, I'll never mention it-- in that regard the training facility is connected directly to the treatment plant.

        The T-001 wasn't released by anyone. It was being chemically disposed of in some unseen area (it emerges from the collapsed roof behind the shutter) but its vitality enabled it to survive, wake up and break free. Tyrants are significantly stronger than gameplay lets on. Also, Birkin doesn't mention destroying the training center:



        He blows up the treatment plant, and with it, anything connected to it... which means the training center and his laboratory. The "magic elevator" explanation only accounts for its inexplicable connection to the training center, not the laboratory. The Kaitai Shinsho guide also says that Birkin backed up the research data from the 0 laboratory. If it were his he wouldn't need to do such a thing.

        As for the sheds, the one in 0 is not the same as the one in 2 and OB. It's actually numbered differently. And OB shows that the turntable... turns, since the survivors use it to travel elsewhere by driving it like a train. Also if we are to consider that the laboratory is connected to the treatment plant, this still doesn't work as the treatment plant is akin to a cave in the mountains, while the laboratory is directly under the city. There's no way they can be connected if it's the real BIO2 lab.

        Basically the 0 lab exists in a weird vacuum and shouldn't be taken as anything but an easter egg.

        Birkin's laboratory is specifically located in the "vacant lot of the chemical plant." So while it's located close to an active facility, the specific lot is empty. This isn't mentioned in the English version.





        Meaning a sizeable amount of Raccoon's population would've heard the immense explosions under and above ground. More reasons why the laboratory in 0 and UC simply cannot exist.
        So what do u suppose is in the doors that you cannot open?

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Deathlygasm View Post
          So one for Zero, one for Outbreak and one for RE2? Wat....
          Yup. Three sheds to garage the trains, and obviously one free route for entry and exit.
          "I've got 100 cows."
          "Well I've got 104 friends."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by TheBatMan View Post
            The in-game compass? Is that honestly the best you can come up with? The pictures don't lie. They are fact, not theory. You don't like it, it's not really my problem. And you're wrong again. It's not two identical save rooms, it's three. Three sheds built the same, therefore three identical layouts. And the issue is what exactly?

            I suggest you come back only when you have something to say, like with even just one small fragment of evidence to support your own theory, even though you've already admitted you've made it up.
            Ah so I suppose there must be 3 security rooms too, just for kicks ang giggles, even though there can be only one, because they would overlap each other, as shwon in the Factory B1 map in Zero.
            And what's wrong about a compass ? North is North, that's a fact too. Maps don't lie. You don't have evidence either but you're acting like you have. Please behave.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Sly View Post
              Ah so I suppose there must be 3 security rooms too, just for kicks ang giggles, even though there can be only one, because they would overlap each other, as shwon in the Factory B1 map in Zero.
              And what's wrong about a compass ? North is North, that's a fact too. Maps don't lie. You don't have evidence either but you're acting like you have. Please behave.
              Yes there's 3 security rooms too. Why not? There are three identical sheds and we've already been inside two of them. And they don't overlap each other at all. The map shows quite clearly they can fit just fine.

              Click image for larger version

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              "I've got 100 cows."
              "Well I've got 104 friends."

              Comment


              • #97
                I'm talking about the security room in B1, with all the monitoring screens, not the save room. Why would there be 3 of them in the same level ? The only way to fit 3 (or even 2) rooms in there would be to destroy the maintenance shaft linking the "magic elevator" to the cable car. Or is the second level of the elevator suddenly a problem too now ?
                Oddly enough, the fact that the save rooms would be identical down to the broken closet and helmets positioning does not bother you. Weird, since your number one argument to tell that the labs are the same is that the backgrounds look alike.
                You could have thought of better explanations as to why the sheds and general area looked different, like the two months gap. They could have removed the door to the cable car, because it had becomme unnecessary since said cable car didn't lead anywhere now, and changed the layout of the vacant factory for security reasons or whatever.
                But no, you charged ahead with your 3 shed nonsense, making up a theory on the fly that contradicts all evidence.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sly View Post
                  I'm talking about the security room in B1, with all the monitoring screens, not the save room. Why would there be 3 of them in the same level ? The only way to fit 3 (or even 2) rooms in there would be to destroy the maintenance shaft linking the "magic elevator" to the cable car. Or is the second level of the elevator suddenly a problem too now ?
                  Oddly enough, the fact that the save rooms would be identical down to the broken closet and helmets positioning does not bother you. Weird, since your number one argument to tell that the labs are the same is that the backgrounds look alike.
                  You could have thought of better explanations as to why the sheds and general area looked different, like the two months gap. They could have removed the door to the cable car, because it had becomme unnecessary since said cable car didn't lead anywhere now, and changed the layout of the vacant factory for security reasons or whatever.
                  But no, you charged ahead with your 3 shed nonsense, making up a theory on the fly that contradicts all evidence.
                  I'm not talking about B1 level, I'm talking about there being three sheds on the surface level with adjacent security rooms which all fit fine. Nobody said anything about there being there being three monitoring rooms on B1.

                  Better explanations? It's plain to see. How is three sheds nonsense when the images clearly show three sheds? It explains the differing numbers on the sheds and it also explains why there is no door in the shed in Bio2. If the turntable doesn't rotate how the hell is the train meant to leave?

                  I'd love to see what evidence I'm contradicting. I'm still waiting for any evidence at all from yourself to support your theory.
                  Last edited by TheBatMan; 08-07-2015, 11:38 AM.
                  "I've got 100 cows."
                  "Well I've got 104 friends."

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    You're grasping at straws. There is one monitoring room in Zero and one in 2. If the sheds are different, then those rooms are different too. However they cannot fit both in B1. Simple, definitive evidence.
                    I never said the turntable didn't rotate. That's the whole point of a turntable, I'm not that stupid. But the fact that it rotates does nothing to help your case with the monitoring rooms problem.

                    Comment


                    • There is just one monitoring room, simple as. Showing the actual layout of the factory is simple, definitive evidence. You have been clutching at straws this entire thread considering your only alternatives you can provide are getting rid of doors and improving security.
                      Last edited by TheBatMan; 08-07-2015, 12:01 PM.
                      "I've got 100 cows."
                      "Well I've got 104 friends."

                      Comment


                      • But... you don't seem to realize that the monitoring room is directly connected to the shed in both games, with the same lift and walkway. You're not making any sense. Do you not know how to read maps ?

                        Comment


                        • Yes I realise that. But that is just an oversight of such tiny proportions you cannot really expect the developers to remember such a minute detail. If so I'll just go with your explanation of 'well they made facility improvements in the two months since and changed the walkway around.' In reality the platform would extend around granted, but RE2 was developed in 1998 so I'm willing to let them off. But the fact it is a different shed explains why there is a door leading to a cable car in one and not the other, and why they have a differing number on the roof.

                          That monitoring room is the same one from Biohazard 2 without a doubt, otherwise Wesker and Birkin would be travelling 8 miles out into the forest to an abandoned water treatment plant in the middle of a complex industrial zone in Raccoon Forest that has never before been referenced and planting themselves in the middle of a biohazard to monitor an investigation that is going on around them in an area where an investigation team have apparently let loose a load of Hunters they brought with them... Seems logical.
                          Last edited by TheBatMan; 08-07-2015, 12:18 PM.
                          "I've got 100 cows."
                          "Well I've got 104 friends."

                          Comment


                          • I have a whacky theory that Capcom decided to remaster REmake and RE0 as a litmus test to gauge the potential public acceptance of an RE2 remake with pre-rendered backgrounds.

                            Personally, I believe that pre-rendered backgrounds are necessary for this to be a good experience. It would also be a great opportunity to showcase just how much more impressive and detailed pre-rendered backgrounds in 2015 can look, compared to real-time renders. This would also allow them to create polygonal actors of the highest graphical caliber.
                            Last edited by Enigmatism415; 08-07-2015, 01:45 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Wesker and Birkin were in charge of the Reclamation Project so it's not a stretch to imagine that they actually went there to oversee said project.

                              As for the shed : you try to eliminate a problem by bringing more problems. Your explanation simply does not work, don't overdo it.

                              Thing is, they are the same labs (and the same sheds, for that matter). The background designers made it so you could recognize the place in an instant, it's not a coincidence. But the developers didn't realize at the time that this last minute fan service addition would bring a shitload of problems with it.
                              You don't think it's a big mistake, but really, it's the biggest of the series. The sewage disposal plant geographical absurdity in 2 looks insignificant in comparison. So the only way to get rid of it, is to try and explain it differenty.
                              So, since no official source explicitly states that the two areas are one and the same - in fact, oftentimes suggesting the opposite, maybe because they did realize afterwards that they messed up - we have to assume that they are different, for the sake of continuity.

                              NewsBot, may I ask you to take a look at Enrico's bio in BH Archives ? In the english version, it says : "After Enrico received a report from Rebecca, who he rendezvoused with at the executive training school, he deployed directly to the Arklay Research Laboratory."
                              The rendezvous part is interesting, but the english version is filled with errors. That would be appreciated.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sly View Post
                                Wesker and Birkin were in charge of the Reclamation Project so it's not a stretch to imagine that they actually went there to oversee said project.

                                As for the shed : you try to eliminate a problem by bringing more problems. Your explanation simply does not work, don't overdo it.

                                Thing is, they are the same labs (and the same sheds, for that matter). The background designers made it so you could recognize the place in an instant, it's not a coincidence. But the developers didn't realize at the time that this last minute fan service addition would bring a shitload of problems with it.
                                You don't think it's a big mistake, but really, it's the biggest of the series. The sewage disposal plant geographical absurdity in 2 looks insignificant in comparison. So the only way to get rid of it, is to try and explain it differenty.
                                So, since no official source explicitly states that the two areas are one and the same - in fact, oftentimes suggesting the opposite, maybe because they did realize afterwards that they messed up - we have to assume that they are different, for the sake of continuity.
                                Actually it is a stretch when they could simply monitor the investigation safely from the exact same room back in the Raccoon City lab without fear of being attacked by leeches or Hunters.

                                In terms of bringing more problems I suggest you take your own advice, and I'm still waiting for you to explain it differently which you are consistently failing to do, despite me asking numerous times. It is meant to be the same lab, you just don't like it, refuse to believe it because you don't like it so you try and invent a completely new facility to justify it. Until a source becomes available stating they are separate labs, it has to be assumed it is one and the same. But that source will never come because the developers intended it to be the same place and put it in without a lot of thought. They obviously tried to fix certain things such as the magic door in the shed leading to the cable car platform but then overlooked others such as the walkway and small lift on B1.

                                Describing it as the biggest fuck-up in the series is a massive exaggeration. The game is hardly broken and the facility fits in place more or less when you take away the magic elevator. It's not perfect, but it's there nevertheless whether you like it or not. You can seemingly forgive a missing floor in the police station, why not this? I believe there's numerous geography issues present with the Outbreak scenarios too when you compare them to the larger Raccoon City map but that it not my interest. You'd have to ask someone like Ridley for the exact details. Something to do with J's Bar and the Apple Inn having to literally float above the End of the Road lab in order to fit correctly. Does that mean they must be discarded? At the end of the day you cannot expect the developers and background artists to get every minute detail absolutely correct. They don't scrutinise this stuff as we do, although they really should.

                                Having it being the same lab presents a geography issue, but there are others present in this series. Having it be separate lab brings numerous more story issues, chief of which is why Umbrella would bother to spend billions and build the 1991 lab beneath Raccoon City when they already had a massive hole 9 floors deep miles out into the forest and well away from the public eye. Hell, why even bother using Arklay labs when there is a much more expansive facility close by? It doesn't make one bit of sense whatever way you look at it.

                                The lab is a poorly implemented cameo. It's as simple as that.
                                "I've got 100 cows."
                                "Well I've got 104 friends."

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