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Thread: It's here - RE2 Remake Official E3 Trailer

  1. #121
    #38 Ramon Salazar Rick Hunter's Avatar
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    There are no B scenarios in this game, just an arranged beginning of the RPD. The rest of the game is exactly the same, and from what I read they implemented this feature at the last minute.

    The game mimics RE1, there's no canon scenario. Variations between Leon and Claire (Ada, Sherry, etc.) but in terms of gameplay barely anything changes outside of a few areas; all bosses are the same except the last one before the train.

    When you take into account the fact that Leon and Claire only interact at the beginning and end of the game, it's a clear regression compared to the variety the 4 scenarios offered in the original RE2.

    Such a lazy effort and wasted opportunity... it's a real shame because nearly everything else is damn good (outside of the futuristic lab...)

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hunter View Post
    There are no B scenarios in this game, just an arranged beginning of the RPD. The rest of the game is exactly the same, and from what I read they implemented this feature at the last minute.

    The game mimics RE1, there's no canon scenario. Variations between Leon and Claire (Ada, Sherry, etc.) but in terms of gameplay barely anything changes outside of a few areas; all bosses are the same except the last one before the train.

    When you take into account the fact that Leon and Claire only interact at the beginning and end of the game, it's a clear regression compared to the variety the 4 scenarios offered in the original RE2.

    Such a lazy effort and wasted opportunity... it's a real shame because nearly everything else is damn good (outside of the futuristic lab...)
    iv not finished the game yet but thats how i exactly feel. i felt capcom rushed it towards the end, this game couldve been like 10/10 for sure if they had jus made more effort

  3. #123
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    You can't have faithful A and B scenarios because canon has already been established, unlike in 1998 where Ada dies and Sherry doesn't get infected being ambiguous to what was actually gonna happen in the future. Where as now we know what is canon and thus there can only be one outcome for each scanerio to keep it as close as possible to what we know (with its own few new twists).

    **spoilers**

    The way this game's scenario has been written doesn't even have room for alternate boss battles. Does Leon go to the orphanage and meet Irons who gets killed by Tyrant? Does Claire go down the sewers, to the incinerator and save Sherry from being incinerated by her own mother? That doesn't make any sense, it would make the writing even less consistent and probably more of a joke for today's standards. Tyrant is Leon's nemesis and G is Clare's nemesis.

    William is drawn by the G Virus to stalk Sherry because she's his flesh and blood and the best host for a G embryo. That's why in Claire's scenario G kills Tyrant, or why Leon has his battle with Tyrant instead of G, because G is drawn to stalk Sherry. Why would G all of a sudden decide to stalk Leon and not infect Sherry with the G Virus? That doesn't make any sense either.

    The 2nd Run is perfectly fine imo, it even leaves room for RE3 by being intentionally short on the street section and leaving the exploration of Raccoon City streets to Jill. What it provides imo is enough of a difference for what the scenario would allow. And sure there are a few areas where events could have been more consistant, but typically it provides a much more refreshing take, with added difficulty, different item placement, different puzzles, and a few more surprises that allow the story to remain the same meanwhile offering a reasonably alternative experience.

    Is it perfect? No, but neither is the entire game. I'm just glad that they're there.
    Last edited by geluda; 02-05-2019 at 05:43 PM.

  4. #124
    #38 Ramon Salazar Rick Hunter's Avatar
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    Well, that's a nice way of turning things around. Playing 4 scenarios that barely have any differences and lack fundamental character interactions during the game when RE2 offered at least a semblance of variety disqualifies it as being at the level of the first remake in my opinion. I'm not going to find excuses for its shortcomings.

    Was it to god damn hard for Capcom to have one or more exclusive bosses for both characters, give them a radio to interact more and change one or two puzzles?

    If anything, they should have improved on the original in every way and featured two exclusive scenarios and get rid of the second run ones. Show us both sides of the story. At it stands, we have none. Getting rid of the Birkin G3 fight in one of the two scenarios and replace it with another boss (Tyrant) would have been a first step to fix it. And fix the tyrant issue by at least showing a chopper drop two of them or something. It's not asking for much.

  5. #125
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    You can't win. People want a faithful remake, one that improves on it in every way, but one that makes it just as fundamentally inconsistent as the original game. That's a truly idiotic statement.

    The developers even stated that this game was intended to be familiar yet a new experience to old players, that was a fundamental design choice from the start. If you want the true ending and to find out both sides of the story, play 2nd Run.

    *spoilers*

    Leon never finds out the truth about Annette, that she took children from the orphanage and used them as test subjects as part of the T Virus experiments, Leon only hears a brief reference to the orphanage in his interactions with Ben, and I don't think Ada knows much about the orphanage either.

    Claire on the other hand witnesses the orphanage first hand, sees the sickening plight of Sherry's predicament and reads documents about how "Ann" took children to new homes where they were going to be loved and cared for, yet they returned mortified with their skin peeling.

    In Leon's campaign Annette come across as a cold and bitter woman who was just as responsible and self crediting for the G Virus as William. Yet on the other hand to Claire, Annentte comes across as a crazy and neglectful woman, but in the end shows she still has true compassion for her daughter.

    So there, you do have both sides of the story. Much of the emphasis of this story is in fact placed on Annette, not William. It's completely consistent story wise that Annette dies in both scenarios, and that death takes place at the hands of 3rd form G.

    If you replace the boss fight and you make Leon witness different events, then you've just created a hot mess that was as inconsistent as the original, and the 2nd Run now becomes about how you explain a completely different series of events as Claire faces Tyrant and Annette doesn't die.

    What do you want? A faithful but completely inconsistent story 20 years later? The story has already been written, canon has already been decided decades ago. I'm not gonna deny that 2nd Run isn't as varied as scenario B in the original and that the game doesn't have flaws, but in order for consistency sake, sacrifices had to be made, and this certainly isn't one of them.

  6. #126
    #38 Ramon Salazar Rick Hunter's Avatar
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    Annette dying twice and the game not have a single canon cannon scenario is consistent?

    Having the second character witnessing different events than the other character she/he barely interacts with is not consistent?

    You totally lost me here. Are you about to tell me that having the same puzzles and bosses in 4 scenarios makes for a richer gameplay and experience overall?

    This game fucks up one of the only thing RE6 did wonderfully: having not two, but FOUR scenarios intertwine perfectly.

    If RE6, a brand new game, could do it, there's no excuse for a remake to at least be on par with its original game.

  7. #127
    #20 Hunter Beta Kei_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hunter View Post
    This game fucks up one of the only thing RE6 did wonderfully: having not two, but FOUR scenarios intertwine perfectly.
    Yes. The game plays amazing, but once i try to the second run...I just can't ignore the laziness of the two scenario system. You can say "they're meant to be two solo stories" all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that the intro to the second run game is DEFINITELY attempting to portray an intertwining story for your first run. It just looks like it was implemented AFTER the recording and mocap already took place.

  8. #128
    #19 Crimson Head Code_R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hunter View Post
    And fix the tyrant issue by at least showing a chopper drop two of them or something. It's not asking for much.
    They didn't even offer a cutscene of one dropping down! Is he even after the G sample ? The level of plot detail is so thin now.

    As for all the above, there are many minor additions that would push this further towards being the definitive version. Instead it's just a pretty good 'what if' version. But not RE1 Remake quality or a game that can be played in a full series marathon. Second Run was clearly a cop out arrange mode added late in because they let slip the old A/B version wasn't actually in the game about a year ago. And yet that doesn't explain how Claire and Leon's story isn't one consistent story that fits like a jigsaw. I mean at least cut Annette dying from Leon's game and remove the chess plugs from Claire's or do something ya know. LeonA/ClaireB never worked in terms of real canon consistency but at least we had the option. It was fun to do for the added extras. I want exploding Irons and "you lose big guy!". Gimme that stuff.
    Last edited by Code_R; 02-06-2019 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #129
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    Ok so let's talk about RE2 canon. Firstly Capcom said from the very beginning that this is NOT a 1:1 REmake of RE2 but a remaining with something different for both old and new players. If you didn't understand that when you went into this game you clearly weren't listening.

    In the original game ClaireA/LeonB is canon. Claire NEVER encounters Tyrant. Leon! He never encounters Kendo, never speaks a word to Marvin, never fights the Aligator, never witnesses Annette's death, never understands a thing about Umbrella until the very end of the game, but does actually fight Tyrant's mutated form as well as 5th form G.

    And both Claire AND Leon fight 3rd form G.

    Original RE2 is riddled with so many problems, to make a reimagining from the games backwards story material, they've done a good job. You have to accept that there are only 2 scenarios from RE2 that are canon, that is lore. What they've done is shuffled things around, gave characters different roles, etc. They even threw in a bunch of 1.5 stuff. If you have a better suggestion on how to develop a cohesive story that has substantial content in both scenarios without including LeonA/ClaireB, I'd love to hear it.

    If it's not obvious that this game is an homage to BIO2, not an accurate retelling, you didn't know what you were buying and you're playing the wrong game.
    Last edited by geluda; 02-06-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  10. #130
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    And by the way, 2nd Run is the best scenario. :p

  11. #131
    #38 Ramon Salazar Rick Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geluda View Post
    If you have a better suggestion on how to develop a cohesive story that has substantial content in both scenarios without including LeonA/ClaireB, I'd love to hear it.
    Yep I do have one, and I already said it: feature only two scenarios, make their content different, and have more interactions between the characters like in the original game, or push it even further like BH1 did with optional events.

    You make it sound like it's asking the impossible. Seriously. It hurts thinking about all this wasted potential.

    And yes, Claire/Lean both fought a version of Birkin G3, but one does on the train platform, and the other in the lab, there's no inconsistency. Even though it was the same boss, at least it showed some effort, something clearly lacking in this remake. It's like the G1 Birkin fight. Both characters could have fought him in the same place, no problem here. But have one of them start the fight in the already destroyed environment with a slightly more mutated Birkin.

    Even an unfinished 40% RE1.5 did that, let that sink in.

  12. #132
    #19 Crimson Head Code_R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geluda View Post
    If you have a better suggestion on how to develop a cohesive story that has substantial content in both scenarios without including LeonA/ClaireB, I'd love to hear it.

    If it's not obvious that this game is an homage to BIO2, not an accurate retelling, you didn't know what you were buying and you're playing the wrong game.
    I literally just offered suggestions on how to improve the story just losing a few scenes that don't add up. Imagine if they added a couple rooms too. Like three new rooms and two new puzzles at max.

    Nobody marketed the game as RE2:Homage. LOL.

  13. #133
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    There are 2 different scenarios, there are 2 completely different paths, both characters have different routes through the RPD (both 1st and 2nd) and completely different routes into the sewers, just like the original game. The only crux is the labs, which seems to be where the biggest area of complaint is.

    Claire and Leon only talk to each other 4 times in the original game, most of which are "I found a way out" one liner conversations, hardly award winning writing. How about the fact that Claire asks Leon to fetch Sherry in Leon B, yet in Claire A she has no idea where Sherry has gone without ever having that conversation? You mean rock solid consistency that fits like a jigsaw in the original like that?

    You know what I liked? I liked the fact that in 2nd Run the licker was back in its original location. I liked the fact that Tyrant stalks you right from the very beginning without even heading into the basement. I liked that items and key enemies were in different locations. I liked that you had the choice of a new weapon, and that the path through the RPD is actually different in all 4 scenarios. I also accept the fact that the idea of 4 scenarios was scrapped and the game was made so both characters had an actual closed ending.

    Lots of butt hurt about the labs, that's all I'm hearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hunter View Post
    And yes, Claire/Lean both fought a version of Birkin G3, but one does on the train platform, and the other in the lab, there's no inconsistency.
    Both Claire and Leon fight 3rd form G on the train platform, Claire on the way down to the labs, Leon when the platform gets stuck half way down. Claire fights 4th form G, Leon fights Tyrant. Do you want canon or not? Your memory of RE2 has as much inconsistency as your perception of this game.
    Last edited by geluda; 02-07-2019 at 07:30 AM.

  14. #134
    #19 Crimson Head Code_R's Avatar
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    Claire and Leon only talk to each other 4 times in the original game, most of which are "I found a way out" one liner conversations, hardly award winning writing. How about the fact that Claire asks Leon to fetch Sherry in Leon B, yet in Claire A she has no idea where Sherry has gone without ever having that conversation? You mean rock solid consistency that fits like a jigsaw in the original like that?
    Yeah 4 times ... so I would expect more conversation and more linking scenes in a big budget modern version, not less. With today's game standards I'd expect a whole separate sewer for Leon and a whole new lab area with even a version of the original G3 fight instead of that same bridge scene with Annette and the same sewer leading to the same plugs/weapon pickup for no reason at all. Why not a reimagined factory area and power room area? They could have done absolutely anything at all.

    I said "fit like a jigsaw" in regard to the new version not the old. The new cinematic coverall version. But as it stands the old one has more variety and more links. More areas, more scenes, and more replay value in a release from 1998. Why is the standard 'less is more' instead of 'more is more'? RE1 Remake style. Nobody is butthurt(?) and I just said like a page back it's a great game. But it could have been perfect instead if it wasn't so lacklustre in more than one section of the experience.

    You're acting as if they had their hands tied and this was the best outcome, but this isn't a release that anyone forced them to a compromise - and there's more DLC coming down the line. Maybe they should enhance what we got in the main game before spending time messing with added extras already. Or at least patch out a handful of glaring issues that would achieve more of what they were aiming for i.e. one smooth overall narrative.
    Last edited by Code_R; 02-07-2019 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #135
    #05 Sliding worm Snake Plissken's Avatar
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    I liked REmake 2 quite a lot, but like many others not having a true B scenario is one of a few annoyances within it. I can almost accept it as it is if we didn't get the same exact boss fights for both characters. I can almost understand both fighting G1 in the machine room. But G2 and G3 are very far fetched, especially G3 since Annette gets squeezed up twice and dies twice.

    It doesn't replace the original, but it's a fantastic supplementation of the PS1 version. It's definitely a step in the right direction over boring RE7, which I'm of the opinion of being the worst game in the main series.

  16. #136
    #19 Crimson Head Code_R's Avatar
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    I kinda like RE7 but it's definitely not something I'll revisit often. This is at least more towards the standards of an actual numbered release post RE4 anyway.

  17. #137
    #45 Soldier Majini geluda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Code_R View Post
    Yeah 4 times ... so I would expect more conversation and more linking scenes in a big budget modern version, not less. With today's game standards I'd expect a whole separate sewer for Leon and a whole new lab area with even a version of the original G3 fight instead of that same bridge scene with Annette and the same sewer leading to the same plugs/weapon pickup for no reason at all. Why not a reimagined factory area and power room area? They could have done absolutely anything at all.

    I said "fit like a jigsaw" in regard to the new version not the old. The new cinematic coverall version. But as it stands the old one has more variety and more links. More areas, more scenes, and more replay value in a release from 1998. Why is the standard 'less is more' instead of 'more is more'? RE1 Remake style. Nobody is butthurt(?) and I just said like a page back it's a great game. But it could have been perfect instead if it wasn't so lacklustre in more than one section of the experience.

    You're acting as if they had their hands tied and this was the best outcome, but this isn't a release that anyone forced them to a compromise - and there's more DLC coming down the line. Maybe they should enhance what we got in the main game before spending time messing with added extras already. Or at least patch out a handful of glaring issues that would achieve more of what they were aiming for i.e. one smooth overall narrative.
    Well to be fair they did have their hands tied. BIO2 presented multiple problems before and after it's release, mainly that it's prototype was a closing for the series, and it's retail game was an expansion for the series. The problem is, nobody really knew for absolute sure (in 1998) what was canon until later in the franchise.

    There are 4 separate stories, one where Sherry gets infected, one where Ada dies, one where Claire destroys the G Virus and Sherry witnesses her mother's death, and one where Leon destroys the G Virus and Ada survives. This wasn't a case of taking everything from RE4-RE6 and retelling RE2 plot for point, this was literally a case of going back to 1997-1998 and doing it all over again.

    That requires looking at everything, every aspect of BIO2 and deciding what to use and how to use it. The one thing that was upheld was what is concrete in RE lore, Sherry gets infected and cured by Claire, Leon destroys the G Virus and Ada survives, something that has been established for over 15 years. That means that no matter what, Claire A and Leon B will always be the narrative and the final outcome of the game, regardless of how the plot actually ends.

    What they instead did was used elements from all aspects of the original to tell the story of Claire A and Leon B in a way that celebrates everything about BIO2, even parts of 1.5. I honestly don't believe their goal was to tell one rock solid cohesive story, their goal was to stick to the basic plot, but make a game that has references, surprises and plot twists that appeal to everyone.

    Sherry witnessing her mother's death is part of Claire B, that is not canon, but it's there in Remake. Why? Because it's a reference to a part of RE history that never happen. Ada fslling off the platform and plummeting to her death is part of Leon A, that is not canon but it's there. Claire getting stalked by Tyrant, Leon not meeting Kendo or the Aligator, it's all the same thing, parts of RE2 that never happen.

    If by reading this you still can't understand what they've done, then it's pointless trying to explain any further, becase your mind is set in its ways and wasn't want to listen. That doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, but the majority of complaints I've read the past page or so are baseless.

    This game is massively faithful to the canon plot, but has been done in a way that combines both A and B scenarios into one, making a very unpredictable and surprising story for old players who don't know what to expect and are surprised to see the story told in a new way. That's exactly what they've done.

    Okay fine, maybe they could have done something with G-3, but are we gonna slam this whole game based on the fact that it uses the alternative endings for both characters and has some minor inconsistencies? It was done on purpose.

  18. #138
    #38 Ramon Salazar Rick Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geluda View Post
    Both Claire and Leon fight 3rd form G on the train platform, Claire on the way down to the labs, Leon when the platform gets stuck half way down. Claire fights 4th form G, Leon fights Tyrant. Do you want canon or not? Your memory of RE2 has as much inconsistency as your perception of this game.
    Yeah sure...

    Claire A:
    https://youtu.be/wBQE8eZzbvM?t=5945

    Leon B:
    https://youtu.be/g4OyuujKUPk?t=7060

  19. #139
    #49 Giant Majini Zombie_X's Avatar
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    The original RE2's Claire A/Leon B canon really had no issues IMO. The new RE2 does introduce inconsistencies to the established canon. Are we really supposed to believe Leon fought the same bosses in the same areas as Claire did in their scenarios? Even in the original game, A/B scenarios didn't have overlapping bosses at all. Sure Leon fought G3 jsut like Claire, but this was a newly mutated G3 and was not quite the same as the one Claire fought. My only gripe with the re-imagining of RE2 we got is the repeated boss battles and the fact that Annette dies twice. Could of easily been fixed by having Leon not fight G2/G3 in his scenarios and not have Claire fight G1. Of course some cutscenes would have to be scrubbed or reworked, but this would really fix the inconsistencies. Or you know, follow the exact way the boss fights worked for the original games A/B scenarios. What I mean is that they could have implemented the A/B scenarios in this reimagining exactly as they were in the original, similar flow and events.

    Now, I do really love this new version of the game, but I don't see it as a remake. It's a bit too different in ways to the original and does change some established lore. But I can look past that and enjoy it for what it is. A new RE games based on the events of RE2, not a RE2 remake.
    Last edited by Zombie_X; 02-09-2019 at 09:52 AM.

  20. #140
    #42 Majini Darkness's Avatar
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    I did claire A leon B in the remake and theres really no proof in claire A that annette is -dead- dead I loved the remake and I noticed the repeated boss battles but they did little to ruin the experience. If they had spent just a little more time on the game it wouldve been a 10/10 and not a 9/10.
    "look forward to final build. it will be full of big surprise. not just guesswork as some people believe." -Mr.BZork

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