DMC4 Demo Soon

[rewak]

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6183772....wstop;title;10

[The Dude]

It'll be interesting to get some PS3, 360 comparisons going on once the demo's out, downloading it on 360 when it does.

[Skunky]

The last time the game was shown in public, it was said the ps3 had slightly better graphics, with a longer draw distance (an indication of how Capcom's 'other' big budget title will go?... time will tell) but in a recent interview and hands on I read about, the developers were bragging about how both versions are virtually identical.
I guess the good news is that neither version is getting the 'crappy port' treatment and you'll be able to enjoy it whatever your preference (unless you only own a Wii)...

[Umon Daisuke]

It's running on Framework, so the differences will be minimal even though it was nearly complete when the 360 version was announced.

At some point the game was touted to hit 1080p, but no more. At any rate, one look at the latest gameplay movies will have you worried. Enemy AI and damage level was DMC2 caliber, so I'm hoping that was a debug version.

If not, then NGII all the way.

[James]

I sincerely hope this doesn't turn out to be anything like DMC2. I was playing DMC3 for a long period of time, then decided to give 2 a shot, and boy was it slow and so awkward to play.

[rewak]

Actually i think the DMC series has gone way downhill, very fast. DMC1 was great, DMC2 was horrible and DMC3 was worse. Hopefully this will bring the series back to its original form.

[Dot50Cal]

The 1Up show said the PS3 version looked better. They didn't go into specifics though. Once the demo hits I'll put up some comparison shots from the same frame. Should be fun

PS> I hate the series.

[Umon Daisuke]

You don't like action games anyway Dot, so no dice :p

And rewak, you have got to be only person who actually thinks that DMC3 is worse than DMC2. DMC3 is considered by many the best playing game in the series due to its technical engine; was a great redemption after the travesty that was DMC2. The SE was even better with the addition of Virgil.

If challenging action games aren't your cup of tea, then that's a different matter. I take it you didn't go past Easy Auto or Normal with the first game either :p

The art style of the first game should be familiar with the 4th game, but anyone looking for an atmospheric palace ground adventure needs to look elsewhere. Anyway, here's hoping that the recent vids are of a debug version.

[rewak]

DMC3 wasn't worse in gameplay, that's for sure! It was Dante's attitude, his cringe worthy one-liners, the overuse of "bullet time" and the way overused "long lost brother" plotline that ruined it for me. It just seemed like a game for kids with ADD, not my thing. If they bring back what DMC1 had then they'll be onto a winner. Although, seeing as how it isn't Dante, its "Nero", i doubt it. At least Trish is back, i hope to god they don't massacre her, she's the best character in the game.

[The Dude]

I f*cking hate Ninja Gaiden *And Yes I have finished it and the Black Edition to boot*...so Ninja Gaiden 2 only gives me something else to hate on.

[metaleggman]

I can't wait for NG2 and somewhat for DMC4...I dono, it looked kinda...emo to me from the trailer. But if the demo's fun, I may just buy it. I've never player a DMC game before, except I did watch awesome may cry, if that counts for anything. ;)

[Umon Daisuke]

The Dude, you have bad taste in games then :p

NGII tops my list up there with MGS4. The modern series may have elements heavily borrowed from DMC1 and even Onimusha, but it's a very well designed series. Long satisfying main adventure and tons of replay value to boot unlike Capcom's efforts. Each difficulty mode plays like a new game, which is almost unheard of.

[Helegad]

Is this for PC too?

[James]

I believe the DMC difficulty levels change things around too, more so than Ninja Gaiden. Giving the bosses alone new moves in DMD and VMD modes of DMC3 changed the way you played the game a great deal.

[Umon Daisuke]

AI patterns didn't change much in DMC3 on various difficulty levels (damage level went up), and compared to the first game's enemies, there wasn't much variety in moves. More enemies were thrown alongside elevated damage levels.

In that respect, DMC was superior to DMC3 (Nothing came close to Shadows or Frosts in DMC3). But NG adds new enemies on every difficulty level, changes AI pattern of existing enemies, lets you fight more on screen, AND bosses have new moves too. Damage levels are higher, and boss fights aren't quite solo since you'll be fighting the boss and other enemies simultaneously.

The karma system and Black/Sigma's mission modes (and the 3 downloaded survival modes) add greatly to the replay value too.

I've argued in the past that DMC is superior since it lets you mix up moves and create custom combos while NG restricts you. Having checked some really good player vids (not highest karma), I was mistaken.

Have a look at this vid for example:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp0asL4LROQ

Strictly difficulty-wise, boss battles alone in DMD modes can be more hectic because of higher HP. HP isn't quite THAT high in NG Master Ninja, but it's harder to land hits.

Frankly, aside from Alma and Doku, DMC1 boss fights were more fun.

[The Dude]

The Dude, you have bad taste in games then :p

*Team Ninja Rant alert*

Wow, leik, sorray! :p
I tend to piss on anything Itagaki, a deluded arrogant pissant director with a fetish for 16 year old ninja schoolgirls with big boobs and the overhyped Tecmo create.
His fixation on badmouthing Namco games is also disturbing when he can't produce anything marketable without throwing a pair of huge boobs on it in some way shape or form.

NG to me is looks and no lastable playability, just like all Tecmo games in the last 6-7 years Wow, Team Ninja, im suprised a company who's development philosophy of NINJAS ARE TEH COOL!!! LETS ADD BIG BOOBIES!!! is still in business, then again thats a poor reflection on the teenage stooges which buy the products, DOA Volleyball anyone?.

*ahem* Back on topic Ninja Gaiden Looked good, had a semi decent engine for the first level, however when you play it for more then an hour you realise its horrendously flawed.
It had a diabolical camera system for starters which really put me off, one which I might add that itagaki spouted was perfect and would never need the right analogue stick to adjust with until...OMG THE UPDATEZ!!!!
The combat was repetitive, the wasn't much scope to the locations and weapons and the boss fights were dull with exception to Alma and Doku, which were fun on the first playthrough, but after experimenting on various difficulties you really get to see how cheap this game truly is, throwing new moves into the mix and AI patterns doesn't really cut it for me, what was a dull experience only turned frustratingly cheap.

Ninja Gaiden isn't really a game which can be considered fun to play, the game was purely and I repeat the words, frustrating and boring.

I found the game to be a complete chore to play through, single player stages lacked originality, thrived on cliché's and the story was unbelievably predictable.

Im not going to big up DMC franchise although I very much prefer it, as I know how horrendously flawed the game was, but from a purely kick back and play the game without thinking too much perspective, I found DMC3 to be one of the more enjoyable games I have played in years, and I loved the OTT production values behind the cutscenes.

I could only stomach playing through NG it three times on varying difficulties, then traded it in for the unholy piece of tripe which is Halo 2.
*And those of us here who want to argue that Halo is a great game can f*ck right off :p*

NG really takes its place among overhyped Xbox games with no substance like HALO, another franchise I missed the boat on, I find it hilarious that at E3 when Halo 2 was introduced a guy had a near seizure during the introduction of the trailer simply cause the Master Chief picked up 2 handguns, LEIK WOW!!!!

All NG2 seems to have done is touch up the graphics, make stages more open and throw more blood introduce more amputation moves, and will undoubtably introduce a new blonde haired jailbait with horrendously oversized boobs for typical pubescant teenage sex appeal like, OMG IT'LL BE THE BEST GAME EVAR!!!!

Then again this is just my opinion I probably could have addressed Ninja Gaiden in a smarter, analytical fashion, but really it doesn't deserve it :p.

Back on Topic.

[Umon Daisuke]

I'm a big Tekken fan. In fact, I have a tattoo (Jin's) and Tekken 3 is my #1 favorite game of all time. FYI, that's an act by Itagaki for hyping up his games, that's all. His humble stance in the 90's when he admitted that VF and Tekken are better didn't get him anywhere. I don't like DOA, and I find the sex appeal direction in poor taste. None of their games are original, and borrow heavily from others.

Also, he's a producer, not a director. Having said all that, NG is the only decent game they've made, period.

Your bickering about NG can apply to DMC too. DMC3 in particular had a boring atmosphere, and an yet another anime-esque story. We all know where DMC1's locales were really spawned. DMD in DMD can feel cheap too if you don't know the system well. Hence your frustration and feeling that NG is cheap. I sincerely doubt that you played it on 3 difficulties if you found it too frustrating and "boring"; that should've settled on Normal or Ninja Dog :p

What's about DMC's story is interesting exactly? nothing, same with NG (though Ryu is a better protagonist). They're action games so they'll have some redundancy to the gameplay. They're at core as good as their engine.

NG's move list per weapon and the UT system complemented by useful ninpo moves covered all grounds. The AI is unforgiving, but you're given enough in your arsenal to take care of everything. Heck, there is a reversal move and a juggle system too.

You're not a fan of modern action games, and that's what it boils down to. Perfectly fine, just don't analyze something if you haven't spent or cared to spent time to learn about it. Both games are flawed, but not horrendously flawed, then again, nothing's perfect. You'd probably feel at home with games like God of War or Onimusha. Then again, you apparently care for a story in an action game, so the latter should be excluded.

I've spent over 300 hours on both DMC and DMC3, and 200 or so on all version of NG. I like both, and admit that NG is DMC inspired (actually has more elements from Genma), but it is an overall superior action game. Sans the camera... which was even worse in Sigma.

Lastly, NGII has a new camera system, a much more advanced AI (enemies don't die unless they're decapitated, otherwise, they're on a kamikaze mission). Realtime weapon and ninpo switching (DMC inspired no doubt), more weapons and a damage control system ala MGS. There's more to come apparently.

[The Dude]

I wasn't going to bother answering your rant with yet another rant, I write enough giving my current occupation, however I did write my rant in jest, not to be taken too seriously as quite frankly I find overanalysing games to be well, quite sad, however I found your rant to be well, pretentious to the point where now I just simply couldn't resist writing one back now here because I noticed a few irritating things which have caught my attention;

1. FYI *I really hate that term*, I am fully aware Itagaki’s namco stunts are in fact press hype, its very common, and producers and directors have been doing for decades to garner press hype for their products, the reason I simply noted it in my rant however is because the fact he continues his rants every time Namco release a game shows how desperate he must be to put his own games over when they clearly lack substance.

2. For someone who claims to play the games a lot and so on, you really aught to replay Ninja Gaiden and check the credits, Itagaki is in FACT the director and producer of Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox, just as he is on many of the DOA games. However on Ninja Gaiden Sigma the reins were handed over to someone else while he went to work on development on Ninja Gaiden II.

However for those who are too Lazy, i've referenced a source;
Ninja Gaiden Credits: http://youtube.com/?v=_JZdF47jGQo

3. Not once did I try and put DMC over, however in my opinion as I said I feel it’s the better game, just exactly where is Ninja Gaiden a better game then DMC in terms of narrative?

Arguably DMC1’s narrative lacked substance, however giving its development roots I’m shocked that Capcom managed to hook a story onto it, and to defend it, it wasn’t actually that bad with the back-story of Dante fleshed out through novels and graphic novels.

However moving back to games, DMC3 did very well to flesh out the character dynamics of its main cast.
I am also a huge fan of martial arts and action film choreography, going so far as to write numerous dissertations on it, so I value the design aesthetic of DMC’s cutscenes being a fan of Yuji Shimomura’s work as action director in Ryuhei Kitamura’s Versus, its worth noting he also served as action director for cut-scenes in Onimusha
3.

4. Where can you say Ryu is the better protagonist?, he’s a monosyllabic ninja with about as much personality as a corpse or dare I say it, the Master Chief. He takes his place among multiple badly written Japanese lone hero caricatures, at least Dante had layers to his character beyond the typical anti-hero set up.

Just to continue with caricatures and narrative for a minute.
What is the Ninja Gaiden’s narrative exactly?
A sword stolen, Ryu must find it, big deal? For an Xbox game I suppose people dropped their load on that.
DMC3’s story for what it is, is pretty well developed, or if you wish to be pedantic and have me explain it, the game explores Dante’s own selfish motivations as he develops from an immature punk with a gun to the ‘hero’ we see in DMC1 and beyond, but frankly there’s little point in prolonging debate on a subject you clearly salivate at the thought of arguing about.
It is what it is, I like the game better then NG.

But just to conclude on this little tidbit, how on earth is Ninja Gaiden’s outlandish story NOT “yet another anime-esque story?”, ninjas, an outlandish narrative concerning a sword and a bland semi futuristic empire and demons?
I really think you need to choose your words a little more carefully.

Moving onto game engines;

Your bickering about NG can apply to DMC too. DMC3 in particular had a boring atmosphere, and an yet another anime-esque story. We all know where DMC1's locales were really spawned. DMD in DMD can feel cheap too if you don't know the system well. Hence your frustration and feeling that NG is cheap. I sincerely doubt that you played it on 3 difficulties if you found it too frustrating and "boring"; that should've settled on Normal or Ninja Dog :p

Firstly, frankly debating with you about both games engines is about as productive as pissing in the wind, I don’t have the time to spend 300+ hours of my life on any one game  so clearly I should bow to the inevitable on this one.
I may be a casual gamer, however I’m a damn good one winning both local and regional tournaments in the past.
I picked DMC up when I was 16 and had a lot of free time on my hands, so its natural that I’d eventually become good enough at it to play through DMD on any of the games in the franchise without worrying about being killed because frankly I know the ins and outs of the game enough instinctively to well, not make an arse of myself and die.

As an Adult now, I don’t have the time to spend hundreds of hours of my life on Ninja Gaiden so I take it at face value, I find it dull, the battle system choppy and flawed compared to the more freeform mode of combat which DMC3 offered, I loved the option of alternating between weapons and juggling for example, however Ninja Gaiden to me consists of running about like a spacker, jumping off walls and attacking and the occasional combo when you don’t have 3 or 4 cheap arse guards trying to fire explosions at you.
Picking up Ninja Gaiden Black on a friends used Xbox, I played like I play any game on its max settings, therefore had to adapt to game playing despite the frustration, upon finishing the game I tried easier difficulties, please don’t be pretentious enough to try and ‘doubt’ me, I can just as easily look at posts you’ve made in the past and declare shenanigans on them too.

You're not a fan of modern action games, and that's what it boils down to. Perfectly fine, just don't analyze something if you haven't spent or cared to spent time to learn about it. Both games are flawed, but not horrendously flawed, then again, nothing's perfect. You'd probably feel at home with games like God of War or Onimusha. Then again, you apparently care for a story in an action game, so the latter should be excluded.

I kind of laughed at this point.
I actually am an open minded individual, and play a variety of games when I have free time on my hands, please don’t assume just because I believe Ninja Gaiden is probably 12-13 hours of my life I want back I’m suddenly a hater of the modern action genre.
I am a casual gamer, I’m not ashamed in admitting that I can’t sit around for days mastering something which I don’t like on the first playthrough, the fact I have played it gives me cause to vent my frustrations however ergo my points from my own point of view are valid.

Yes I like games with a narrative, why not? I grew up playing RPG’s, and action games with at least a hint of story and being a writer why not want a decent narrative to drive on a game to keep me interested, what exactly is your point here I ask cause I am really finding it hard to find one.

I didn’t intend this to be a long winded rant but I am kind of getting sick and tired of posting in this forum in the last couple of topics and seeing people fanboyishly throwing facts in my face and so on. (I haven't even bothered to get onto the Street Fighter III Rant yet which i'll do next time I have free time)
People, Grow up.

[Umon Daisuke]

Hold on, my post is pretentious? I mentioned NGII once in the beginning only to have your majesty throw in his two cents using the word hate. I replied to Nemesis' post, and gave my opinion on the games in question but apparently you took great offense when I jokingly said that you have poor taste in games. If you don't like over-analyzing matters, why did the long post in reply to that clearly joke of a comment? I must've mislead you thinking that I actually cared about your opinion of NG and really wanted to know what you really "hate" about it. I should apologize for that, heh.

Despite the credits, Itagaki has clarified once that he lets the team work on the games and only picks up when they're 90% complete. He's primarily a producer.


I'm far from what you call a hardcore gamer. There are few franchises that hold my attention (DMC, NG, Tekken, MGS, VF, and RE). Even most of those don't hold my attention for long nowadays. The 300+ hours on the games are naturally spent throughout the course of what... 6 + years for DMC1, and 3 years for NG. I'm 28 so I haven't had much time to play 200+ hours of any game day after day for a great while now.

But just to conclude on this little tidbit, how on earth is Ninja Gaiden’s outlandish story NOT “yet another anime-esque story?”, ninjas, an outlandish narrative concerning a sword and a bland semi futuristic empire and demons?
I really think you need to choose your words a little more carefully.

I didn't want to point the obvious of NG being an anime cliche. I did say "What's about DMC's story is interesting exactly? nothing, same with NG". They both stink from that point of view, period. If you found Dante's personality and story entertaining, more power to you. I don't care for stories in games at all, without any exceptions (that includes MGS). I didn't say I had a problem with you liking games with stories, I merely stated that action games don't have much substance in that department.

You re-iterated your opinion, but apparently disagreeing isn't an option and in turn so is debating it. Even if it's something as obvious as claiming that a game with 4 distinct difficulty levels with 20 hour story mode and tons of missions has no lasting playability. I stand by what I said. Take it with a grain of salt.. though it's a bit late for that.

With that said, yes, I'm the pretentious one. Since I am one apparently, I'll just say that the story mode last 20 hours on average the first time around (one run). You must've been be quite skilled and guided. Not to mention had someone unlock all difficulties prior.

Lastly, you called DMC heavily flawed... yet with opinion of NG, you expect me not to conclude that you're not an action fan? Or are you just one of those people who finds flaws in every single matter? The action genre of that caliber is pretty much limited to 3 games: GoW, DMC, and NG. That's it.

You're not obliged to rant or comment in response to others comments you know. If you do, then knock yourself out. You've got the SFIII matter to attend to, which I'm very much looking forward to and will read thoroughly (is this sarcasm?).

You've got a short fuse, and I just like debating matters when anyone throws in their two cents as facts. If you take it as a personal attack, then it's your own problem. The SFIII matter comes to mind. Head over to Shoryuken if you want the lowdown why the PS2 and Xbox versions are the definitive versions, and yes, they both look better (and don't compare DA to TS.. DA looked better)

[Helegad]

As soon as I saw those long posts, I pressed the back button on my browser. I'm very scared. I couldn't type that much about one game.