Thoughts on RE5, start to finish

[BadWolfX]

Slightly off topic, but was anyone angry at Shinji after he said that (I think it was Shinji ><). I just thought "Well if you'd want to change it after one game then why the hell did you do it in the first place. Don't have a fucking fit over it, you started the whole new gameplay stuff."

[Mr. Kennedy]

I thought the game was great BUT Chapter 5 and 6 becam a real pain in the ass and I mean BIG TIME I started out enjoying the game and the last 2 chapters ruined it the game became fustrating and not fun any more I understand why the creater said he whould not play it because it whould be fustrating and he was right if you ask me he need to come back and put the series back on tail such as BRING BACK ZOMBIES.

That's funny, I found the beginning to be a complete retread of RE4 and didn't find the story very interesting until chapter 5 and onward. Basically, when Wesker is revealed to be involved.

[BadWolfX]

Wow, really? Aside from Assembly Place/Pueblo I thought they were totally different.

[Jill's Boob]

Wow, really? Aside from Assembly Place/Pueblo I thought they were totally different.

I agree with you.

While I felt like the gameplay was for the most part a "retread" of RE4, each different setting tried to bring something different to the experience as you progressed through the game. And it was even a nice pace to see enemies have a little variety, such as the marshland majini using new dodge tactics, or the shipboard majini taking cover and shooting at you with automatics weapons.

This is opposed to RE4, where all enemies kept doing the SAME thing.

I thought the game was great BUT Chapter 5 and 6 becam a real pain in the ass and I mean BIG TIME I started out enjoying the game and the last 2 chapters ruined it the game became fustrating and not fun any more I understand why the creater said he whould not play it because it whould be fustrating and he was right if you ask me he need to come back and put the series back on tail such as BRING BACK ZOMBIES.

Shinji Mikami said he would not play RE5 because he'd enter it with a bias, believing that whatever he saw he would have qualms with since he'd feel he would have done it differently. But nice try.

And you are hilarious: Shinji needs to come back and put the series back "on track" by bringing back zombies? If you recall, his changes to the RE universe (with your beloved RE4) is what removed zombies in the first place. Again, nice try.

[Archelon]

I was watching the E3 2007 trailer again for the heck of it, and there are a lot of elements from it that I really wish were in the final game. I imagine most of them had to be cut because of the co-op, which is very disappointing. I would have much rather had a single player experience with the extra features present in the E3 2007 trailer than what we actually got. Ah well. Perhaps next time.

I just keep getting the impression that, once they decided to make the game co-op, they felt like that was all they needed to do. It didn't help that they kept touting the co-op gameplay as this huge innovation. Even if you were to argue that it's a huge innovation for this series (and not gaming on the whole, which is obviously isn't), as the developers often did, the argument is pretty weak when you consider the Outbreak series.

To expand on what I mean, I'll copy and paste a post I made on another forum:

You know, I was watching the E3 2007 trailer again the other day, just for the heck of it, and I have to be honest, there were a lot of things in that trailer that I wish they had kept for the final game. I'm not entirely sure why this stuff was cut, but I'd imagine making the game co-op had something to do with it. There were some things they talked about in early previews and interviews, too, that didn't make it in.

If you watch the trailer again, you'll be able to see a lot of this stuff (though the Collector's Edition strategy guide elaborates on a lot of it). I can't help but get the feeling that, once they decided to make the game co-op, the developers felt like that was all they really needed to do. It was the only "innovation" necessary, as it were. I strongly believe that they limited themselves conceptually as a result. Obviously, I can never know if the version of the game depicted in that initial trailer would be a better game than the version we got, but I still think some of their ideas were interesting and would certainly like to see them return in a future title.

The enemies were apparently more intelligent than they are in the final game, as they could pick up random objects from the environment and use them as weapons. This is evidenced by a screenshot from the early build in the CE strat guide where a Majini is attacking Chris with a chair. The enemies could also tackle Chris and even pin him to the ground (you see this in the trailer), perhaps holding him down so the axe Majini could decapitate him?

Chris himself apparently had more abilities at his disposal, as well. He could dodge regular enemy attacks with the press of a button (you see him ducking a couple times in the trailer, and the CE strat guide confirms this was done by pressing the Action button at the precise moment). He also seemed to have counterattacks, which presumably were to replace Leon's boot to the head when breaking free of a Ganado's grasp. You see Chris punching a Majini and kicking some away after pushing them off in the trailer. The melee attacks themselves are still in the game, but you can only use them when a Majini is stunned. Otherwise, Chris just pushes the Majini off.

One of the biggest things I wish they had included in the final game though was destructible environments. There are still some in the game, but few, if any, actually affect the gameplay in any real way. They're more set dressings or scripted events than anything else. In the trailer, you see Chris standing on what appears to be a makeshift wooden balcony of sorts. The axe Majini then swings his giant axe, taking out the supports of the balcony, causing it, along with Chris, to come crashing down to the ground. There's really nothing like that in the final game, sadly.

Perhaps the biggest aspect of the gameplay to not make it into the final game (at least not in the same sense as it was originally intended) was the light and darkness aspect of the environment. Takeuchi, as well as other members of the development team and Capcom, stated on several occasions that they wanted to recreate that sense of moving from a dark area to a bright one and vice versa where there is a brief period of time where your eyes have to adjust before you can see anything clearly.

You can see this in the trailer, though it's perhaps not as obvious as some of the other gameplay mechanics I've described thus far. The idea was that when Chris moved from a darkened room or building out into the bright sunlight, you wouldn't be able to see anything for a few seconds while Chris' "eyes" adjusted to the light. The development team was going to use this brief period of time as a means of "scaring," or at the very least, surprising the player, by having enemies jump out and attack while they couldn't be seen.

This is still in the final game, but in a limited capacity, and it's never used for gameplay purposes. The most obvious example from the final game is when you just start, before you meet with Reynard and get your weapons. If you enter one of the shacks and look outside, it'll be extremely bright, and you won't be able to make out much of anything. That's about it, though.

The game was also apparently going to be much more open-ended and exploration-oriented than RE4 was, at least according to early interviews with Jun Takeuchi. Ironically, the final game turned out to be even more linear than RE4. I imagine this was a direct result of making the game co-op.

There was one element discussed early on that was never actually intended to be included in the game (it was a mistranslation from an interview with Takeuchi) that nevertheless could have provided an interesting twist on the "survival" portion of "survival horror," and that was the idea of overheating. It was believed that Chris, if he spent too long out in the open and in the bright sun, he could potentially overheat, and this would affect his performance (aiming, for example, would become more difficult). So players would have to seek shade or cooler areas to let Chris cool off. Drinking water was even mentioned.

Again, while this was never meant to be a part of the game, I think they could have done some interesting things with it. Some speculated that overheating would cause Chris to hallucinate (similar to an early build of RE4 where Leon had hallucinations as a result of being infected with some sort of virus). Obviously, this isn't something that would work too well with the co-op gameplay. Still, I think it would be interesting to see in a future title. I imagine it would be akin to Naked Snake's stamina gauge in MGS3 and Old Snake's stress meter in MGS4.

Anyway, as I said, maybe we'll see some of these elements return in a future title. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing them, myself.

[Jill's Boob]

Have to agree with you for the most part...that many potentially strong gameplay elements were omitted for the sake of "multiplayer." That really pisses me off, and I'd rather not think about it too much. But the game could have been a real progression from RE4, had the designers stuck with a single player mission and many of the game mechanics they were experimenting with in those early interviews. I'll never understand why they chose to try to take RE and make it a co-op experience (Outbreak was good enough for that kind of RE experience).

I'd have really enjoyed a final product that was Chris solo with the gameplay elements seen in the summer of '07 trailer and a Chris character model that looked more like the one from the very first trailer (blue clothing). A story focused solely on Chris could have been so much better, as it could have really emphasized his rivalry with Wesker, and done a better look at the 10 years from RE1 to RE5. Perhaps even shocked us all and shown some deep character development in the RE universe. Also, a single player game could have been longer and involved more expansive environments.

I know there are people that love co-op experiences, but Capcom could have easily just left Mercs/Survivors/Versus as the co-op elements.

What RE5 could have been is largely left to our imaginations, and unfortunately nothing is ever as good as it appears in your mind. Still...

Despite all that, I enjoyed the hell out of RE5, and logged 67 hours total of playtime since its release.

[The Ekamp]

We'll I've had the game beaten for a week and I guess I'll share my thoughts...

RE5 is a really good game, but I felt that my first playthrough of RE4 was more special. It was fun, but I don't like that it feels there are only a few levels in each distint area. It just felt like I was zooming through, and that perheps the areas could have been more open-ended. The only area that we got accostomed to was the urban Kijuju at the beginning, and even that didn't feel long enough. The mines are only two maps long, I felt the lab was a bit short, and you're only on the boat for a little while (but then again there's not much ground to cover on a boat lol). I knew they were going to make this more concise than RE4, but I didn't know they'd cut the fat out to the point of annorexia XD

I felt the most explorative level was 3-1, the marshlands. It was cool going to all these places out in the swamp (and apparently there are some things I've still missed!) It also introduced my favorite Majini variety, the tribal zombies! I will never forget when I knocked one to the ground and he got right back up in a few seconds o_O

On the marshland exploration, It would be cool if the Kijuju chapters were like this too. It was kinda like Resident Evil 3's street exploration, but you were going in a straight line. It would have been great if they expanded the beginning part of the game, where the parasites think they're people (aint that cute ) and you have no weapons nor a reason to attack. Like, you had several areas to walk through, with each getting more bizzare until you reach Campbell-I mean Reynard. Several areas will be blocked, and you have the suspicion that you'll be coming back this way. And then when all hell breaks loose, the Majinis make their intents certain (glares of death don't work quite as well as hatchets), you'd be fighting in the areas that you already walked through, and you'd have a maze of a shanty town to survive.

Co-op was the best part Sheva's AI sucks, but it's a non-issue to me since I only play co-op.

The game isn't scary. There was one part that surprised me, and that is the first time the Chainsaw Majini revived and went crazy. That shit did NOT happen in the demo XD

Sure, early on they attempted when the Majinis jumped out at you behind boxes, but I felt no surprise from that. Also odd when these event weren't even covered by the media....

The dogs kinda frightened me at first, but any death from them was more "god dammit" than "holy fuck what just happened".

Although the game isn't scary, it has its share of disturbing wildlife. Like, um, Duvalias. These don't make their host's heads explode, but their ENTIRE TORSO, and the remains of their rib cages hanging off the the side D: And apparently they have a move where they eat the entire player in half, but I've not had this happen yet. I see one and FLASH GRENADE.

And then from the end of Chapter 4 and to around Chapter 5, so many mixed reactions from me XD. One time I'm outrunning ancient solar lazers, and then I'm using these lazers to solve a (easy) puzzle, and then we get to the beautiful underground garden, probably the most stunning looking place in the game. And then FILES! So many FILES! THought I didn't get to read them my first time thorugh since my online partner just wanted to play on. "Come on! Come on!" =/

(Also, why didn't they include the files you read ingame to the main menu Library? That kinda pisses me off...)

And then Lickers! And they've been taking the same steroid Chris has XD
I've been killed more than once by these bastards, especially at the excavation site (which is kinda like RE4's water hall redux)

And then we descend some stairs, a small cutscene plays where we see the back of a zombie-like soldier holding...a machine gun?!?! =O And then some Metal Gear-esque combat music plays (it's nice tho)...

Sure, they had turrets before, but this is where it gets crazy in-your-face XD. This whole part of the game is weird, since one room you're having a shoot out, and afterwards you're fending off monstrosities such as Lickers and Reapers, and then more shooting. Sometimes both at the same time! =o

I sorta got a mixed reaction from the Wesker-Jill part. The scene before was great, but then the fight starts and Wesker seems to walk around like an idiot...then the scene after when Jill says "He's our only hope" I had realized this game is total cheese XD

I also think Capcom didn't have the balls to give Jill a Plaga as a control method, settling for a new, less-squicky performace enhancing mind control drug. I thnk it would have make Wesker seem more evil, and Chris hate him even more. On the otherhand, if Jill had been given a Plaga, she wouldn't be aware of her actions like with the P30, she'd pretty much just be the walking dead. And that way Wesker would only be able to inflict suffering of Chris, not him and Jill at the same time. But the whole drug thing still seemed out of place...

[Mr. Kennedy]

Yes, P30 was very plot convenient.

[missvalentine]

did anyone notice how similar RE5 was to RE4?

i mean it basically follows the same layout, and basically the same enemy types.

i mean RE4 we have a villiage, RE5 we have the town, both have regualar looking Ganados/Majinis in them. and both start in the daylight.

then we have the Castle and the Caves, where in RE4 we have religious zealots, and in RE5 we have something slightly different with the Ndipaya tribal people.

and then we have the Military Island in RE4 with the Militia Ganados and the Military Base in RE5 with the Militia Majini.

so the areas are pretty much the same. and so are most of the enemies.

Majinis are pretty much Ganados.

the Big Man Majinia acts and behaves exactly the same as the Garradors in RE4.

the Reapers in RE5 are just an enlarged version of the Novistadors in RE4.

the chainsaw majini is obviously copied of Dr, Salvador.

the Gattlin Gun Majini is a carbon copy of J.J excet he's a different color.

now the lickers, who appeared in the final areas only, and who are also the most dangerous and only feared enemies in the game, kind of sounds like the same formula for the Regenorators.

also Regenorators are peculiarly like zombies if anyone noticed.

the Majinis that have the big Tentacles comming out of there heads are just the same as the ganados who had that knife like thing come out of there head.

and the other ones who would bite your head of (duvalia?) are the same as the ones in RE4 who bite your head of.

and U8 and Irving are similar to Salazar kinda.

anyways there are endless similarites between them both.

[Darkmoon]

It's not exactly shocking. I mean, if it sells shed loads and makes you tons of cash...why try and change it?

[Mr_Zombie]

Some of your points are valid missvalentine, but few are not, they looks forced.
For example I don't really see how you connected Lickers and Regenerators. If anything I would say that Reapers are Regenerators kind of enemies, because to kill them you have to shoot them in a few specific points.
Also, U8 similar to Salazar? How? I could understand Irving, but that's only because he looks similar, but the entire battle with the thing is completely different than the battle with Salazar. Just like even though Ndesu is an African version of El Gigante, the entire boss fight is nothing like any of El Gigante fights in RE4.

Sure, RE5 has lots of similarities with RE4, but at the same time it has few new things, and makes lots of old things differently. It's not simple copy & paste kind of thing.

[missvalentine]

Some of your points are valid missvalentine, but few are not, they looks forced.
For example I don't really see how you connected Lickers and Regenerators. If anything I would say that Reapers are Regenerators kind of enemies, because to kill them you have to shoot them in a few specific points.
Also, U8 similar to Salazar? How? I could understand Irving, but that's only because he looks similar, but the entire battle with the thing is completely different than the battle with Salazar. Just like even though Ndesu is an African version of El Gigante, the entire boss fight is nothing like any of El Gigante fights in RE4.

Sure, RE5 has lots of similarities with RE4, but at the same time it has few new things, and makes lots of old things differently. It's not simple copy & paste kind of thing.

how could i forget El Gigante and the Ndesu.

the Lickers and Regenorators i conected because both RE4 and RE5 only have one good enemy which is scary and deadly. and both are drastically different from every other enemy in each game. the Regenorators are like zombies and don't look related to plagas at all. and the Lickers are made by the T virus while everything else in RE5 is plagas. so there the same type or idea anyway.

[Darinl1979]

^ Weren't the Lickers in RE5 made from Progenitor Virus? Also storywise, Las Plagas has proven to be more effective as a bio weapon then T-virus.

The comparisons between RE4 and 5 make sense, in my opinion RE5 is the game that 4 should of been. A story that followed the actual RE-verse. I enjoyed it alot, the game hasn't left my PS3 since I got it and I have played it almost everyday since getting it. There are a few things I do wish were in the game though.

More customization. I wish your health bar was expandable by finding limited items. Or just be able to upgrade your characters in other ways.

As someone else mentioned, files being viewable in the file menu instead of having to find them in game. I think in all previous games we picked them up and brought them with us.

Mercs is good, I would of liked to see some classic RE stages thrown in just for fun. A infested Raccoon City, Arklay Mansion or RPD would been a nice throwback. All in all though these are just minor things that would of been nice, its still an amazing game.

[Alexia_Ashford]

did anyone notice how similar RE5 was to RE4?

i mean it basically follows the same layout, and basically the same enemy types.

i mean RE4 we have a villiage, RE5 we have the town, both have regualar looking Ganados/Majinis in them. and both start in the daylight.

then we have the Castle and the Caves, where in RE4 we have religious zealots, and in RE5 we have something slightly different with the Ndipaya tribal people.

and then we have the Military Island in RE4 with the Militia Ganados and the Military Base in RE5 with the Militia Majini.

so the areas are pretty much the same. and so are most of the enemies.

Majinis are pretty much Ganados.

the Big Man Majinia acts and behaves exactly the same as the Garradors in RE4.

the Reapers in RE5 are just an enlarged version of the Novistadors in RE4.

the chainsaw majini is obviously copied of Dr, Salvador.

the Gattlin Gun Majini is a carbon copy of J.J excet he's a different color.

now the lickers, who appeared in the final areas only, and who are also the most dangerous and only feared enemies in the game, kind of sounds like the same formula for the Regenorators.

also Regenorators are peculiarly like zombies if anyone noticed.

the Majinis that have the big Tentacles comming out of there heads are just the same as the ganados who had that knife like thing come out of there head.

and the other ones who would bite your head of (duvalia?) are the same as the ones in RE4 who bite your head of.

and U8 and Irving are similar to Salazar kinda.

anyways there are endless similarites between them both.

I don't see a point to this. Obviously the enemies are going to be the same when they are infected with the same parasite (Las Plagas). Just because the Las Plagas models are slightly different doesn't mean there's going to be drastic changes in the enemies. I don't remember people complaining about there being a Tyrant or zombies in RE2, or Hunters in RE3. Nor do I remember people complaining because RE2 had you explore a really large place with loads of rooms and floors, only to be led to a secret underground Umbrella lab, you know, just like RE1. Is this a new concept to the Resident Evil genre, to follow a slightly similar formula to its predecessor?

[Darinl1979]

I don't see a point to this. Obviously the enemies are going to be the same when they are infected with the same parasite (Las Plagas). Just because the Las Plagas models are slightly different doesn't mean there's going to be drastic changes in the enemies. I don't remember people complaining about there being a Tyrant or zombies in RE2, or Hunters in RE3. Nor do I remember people complaining because RE2 had you explore a really large place with loads of rooms and floors, only to be led to a secret underground Umbrella lab, you know, just like RE1. Is this a new concept to the Resident Evil genre, to follow a slightly similar formula to its predecessor?

Lets assume in Resident Evil 6 they introduce a whole new type of infection and whole new types of B.O.Ws. There will be countless threads whining "GIVE ME BACK MY LAS PLAGAS, THEY WERE SO GOOD AND INSTRUMENTAL TO THE RESIDENT EVIL UNIVERSE".

I enjoyed all the stuff that was in RE5, I personally would of liked to see more BOW's derived from Progenitor but they did a good job with what they used. Lickers that are actually threatening and Reapers are good addition.

[Mr. Kennedy]

I don't remember people complaining about there being a Tyrant or zombies in RE2, or Hunters in RE3. Nor do I remember people complaining because RE2 had you explore a really large place with loads of rooms and floors, only to be led to a secret underground Umbrella lab, you know, just like RE1.

Yep.

The RE series has always copied the same formula over and over again, so complaining about it now doesn't really make sense.

[Vector]

Moral of the story: people will bitch and moan about anything and everything.

[Sina]

I don't see a point to this. Obviously the enemies are going to be the same when they are infected with the same parasite (Las Plagas). Just because the Las Plagas models are slightly different doesn't mean there's going to be drastic changes in the enemies. I don't remember people complaining about there being a Tyrant or zombies in RE2, or Hunters in RE3. Nor do I remember people complaining because RE2 had you explore a really large place with loads of rooms and floors, only to be led to a secret underground Umbrella lab, you know, just like RE1. Is this a new concept to the Resident Evil genre, to follow a slightly similar formula to its predecessor?

Exactly, it's simply a game pacing thing. You start with simpler, easier enemies and then as the pace goes on you increase the variety and difficulty. It's not that they went out of their way to copy RE4, it's just that RE4 had a good model for enemy progression so naturally other models will feel similar. You're really reaching missvalentine. U-8 = Salazar?

[Darinl1979]

You're really reaching missvalentine. U-8 = Salazar?

Didn't you catch the hidden dialogue? If you wait long enough U-8 sends his right claw after you. Yes it comes off.

[Sina]

"I just had an extreme makeowa!"
"Monsters..."