Project Umbrella Updates

[ValentineLover]

This vial contained a Las Plagas variant known as a control Plaga.

Well, doesnt the guide says that TriCell had other ways to control the Majini. And it also says that Irving got injected the modified subordinate plaga, not a true control plaga.

[News Bot]

The Las Plagas article before said that Irving got the parasites through his black market contacts. And now it just talks about a modified subordinate Plaga though there is evidence against that.

If those are not theories, I don't know what they are.

I'm not sure where the info on the black market contacts came into play, I didn't edit the article at the time. And I don't see any evidence against it considering Type 3 Plagas did not exist in 2004.

[Archelon]

You're kind of jumping the gun yourself there by instantly saying that she didn't send him anything at all despite it being confirmed by her herself.

Except it wasn't. All she said was she sent him "something different," not that she sent him a different type of Las Plagas. Just because he has Las Plagas in Resident Evil 5 doesn't mean that Ada sent him Las Plagas. Wesker gets what Wesker wants, for sure, but he is more than capable of utilizing other means to obtain his objectives.

Now, if you can show me that the "something different" line was due to a botched translation or something along those lines, and Ada actually did state that she sent Wesker Las Plagas, then I'll concede the point.

The biography pages for El Gigante ("Created by the application of experimental giant parasite.") and Ndesu confirm that the Plagas used are different, which is also the same for Krauser, U-3, Verdugo, Novistador and the Regenerador. There's also these:

See how easy that was? If you would just post your sources from the start instead of dodging questions or basically saying "just trust me on this one," things would go a whole lot more smoothly, and there would be less confusion.

[News Bot]

Except it wasn't. All she said was she sent him "something different," not that she sent him a different type of Las Plagas. Just because he has Las Plagas in Resident Evil 5 doesn't mean that Ada sent him Las Plagas. Wesker gets what Wesker wants, for sure, but he is more than capable of utilizing other means to obtain his objectives.

Now, if you can show me that the "something different" line was due to a botched translation or something along those lines, and Ada actually did state that she sent Wesker Las Plagas, then I'll concede the point.

So you are assuming that Ada sent him "something different", un-related to Las Plagas, and she was STILL working with him post-2004? Despite outright betraying him? She was after all ordered to send him this "different" thing by The Organization themselves, manipulation seems pretty obvious. Plus, sending anything different would have earned them Wesker's wrath.

To be fair, I don't think Separate Ways is considered canon by the developers and script/scenario writers. Assignment Ada seems to bear more weight.

[Alexia_Ashford]

So you are assuming that Ada sent him "something different", un-related to Las Plagas, and she was STILL working with him post-2004? Despite outright betraying him? She was after all ordered to send him this "different" thing by The Organization themselves, manipulation seems pretty obvious. Plus, sending anything different would have earned them Wesker's wrath.

To be fair, I don't think Separate Ways is considered canon by the developers and script/scenario writers. Assignment Ada seems to bear more weight.

I think that's what the point is though. Would have, should have etc. Even if it makes perfect sense and we have no reason to think she sent him something different, I think what Archelon is trying to say is; Is it direct from an official source? If so, provide it, if not, just say so and that it is the most plausible outcome given the information we currently have available.

[Guest]

I'm not sure where the info on the black market contacts came into play, I didn't edit the article at the time.

Well, I don't know the origin either, but at least you did mention Wesker got the Plagas off the black market.
Just don't say there are no theories in the articles. You're managing a wiki there, it's user-edited and so it naturally contains errors and theories.

And I don't see any evidence against it considering Type 3 Plagas did not exist in 2004.

Neither was there a book created by external editors that mentioned a "modified subordinate Plaga". Which I still find very fishy not to be mentioned in the game itself, given the "Ricardo Irving" Library file did actually say he was infected with a Control Plaga.

[Archelon]

I think that's what the point is though. Would have, should have etc. Even if it makes perfect sense and we have no reason to think she sent him something different, I think what Archelon is trying to say is; Is it direct from an official source? If so, provide it, if not, just say so and that it is the most plausible outcome given the information we currently have available.

Exactly. Thank you.

[News Bot]

Well, I don't know the origin either, but at least you did mention Wesker got the Plagas off the black market.

That's pretty outdated. =P I believe that was well before the whole Master = Control/dominant species thing came into play too (hence my assumptions about Master being different, although I was still half-right in the end).

Neither was there a book created by external editors that mentioned a "modified subordinate Plaga".

What? I don't understand what you mean by that, haha. Are you saying the source doesn't exist or that it didn't exist in 2004? That's pretty obvious considering its a Biohazard 5 book.

I don't think anything short of an interview with the Separate Ways and Biohazard 5 script/scenario writers would clear up the whole thing, though. They bit off more than they could chew when Separate Ways was written. Even the Biohazard 4 guidebook goes with Assignment Ada being the canon version of events (in which Wesker is controlling The Organization and Krauser is also a member) which they continued with in Biohazard 5 (Anpo states that Wesker obtained Las Plagas from Ada directly in a minigame in Biohazard 4, but doesn't state whether its AA or SW, further confusing the matter). Separate Ways wasn't intended to be released at all, simply being a bonus in the PlayStation 2 version (which still contains AA, which contradicts SW on several fronts). The supposed revelation that Irving works (or worked, who the fuck knows really) for Ada who in turn works for Wesker is also a pretty fucking huge spanner in the works.

Its a pretty big cock-up in my opinion. =/

Although, Prime Blue, if you want to take a closer look at the original text from which the "modified subordinate Plaga" comes from, here you go. I believe I've offered it to you a few times but I don't think you've ever actually translated it:

アーヴィングが支配種プラーガの胚をみずからに注入し、巨大な水棲生物べと変貌した姿。南欧の 事 件の首謀者が使用したものとは形状が大きく異なつ ており、従属種のプラーガと同様に品種改良がほど こされていたと推測される。支配種の特徴として、 寄生された人間の意識は失われずにすみ、プラーガ を意のままにあやつることが可能となるが、新型プラーガはすでに別の命令方法で統率されているため、投与の 目的は戦闘能力向上に限定される。

[TheBatMan]

The important thing to note though is that Wesker did get Las Plagas off Ada post RE4. That much is confirmed by a developer interview in the RE5 guidebook {an interview which included the scenario and script writer.} That is about as close to an official source you can get.
Whatever the Seperate Ways scriptwriter says on the matter is pretty much irrelevant as it is evident he did not work on RE5 otherwise we would not be facing this plot hole.

Perhaps the script for Bio 5 was more or less set in stone before Seperate Ways was released? That seems the only logical reason why it seems to be ignored.

And then LIN more or less confirms that Ada is still working with Wesker a good few years post RE4 so she either did not cheat him or he was unaware of being cheated - which adds much weight to News Bot's 'modified plaga' theory in my opinion.

But there is definitely a key element missing somewhere as to exactly what happened, but the overall answer has been confirmed - he got them off Ada.

[Archelon]

If you're referring to the interview in the English guide, it was Yoshinori Matsushita, a modeler, who claims that Wesker obtained Las Plagas "in a side-story of RE4." Isn't taking the word of a modeler kind of like saying Chris Kramer said Wesker got Las Plagas from Ada?

Is there an interview with Takeuchi, Kawata, and/or Anpo in any of the Japanese guidebooks in which they specifically state that Wesker got Las Plagas from Ada? How about that rather lengthy interview with Takeuchi in the The Art of Biohazard 5? I know they're releasing that in English come August, so I guess we can just wait until then to find out.

[TheBatMan]

Yeah, but the scriptwriter was present in that interview, so I'm sure he would have interjected if that wasn't the case.

Its by no means concrete, but as I said its as close to official confirmation as we're gonna get.

[Guest]

What? I don't understand what you mean by that, haha. Are you saying the source doesn't exist or that it didn't exist in 2004? That's pretty obvious considering its a Biohazard 5 book.

Well, I don't get then why you brought up the nonexistence of Type 3 in 2004.

I don't think anything short of an interview with the Separate Ways and Biohazard 5 script/scenario writers would clear up the whole thing, though.

In the developer interview, Tsukasa Takenaka (the creator of the RE5 story background and files) was present, so I think he would have at least intervened if the "side-story" bit was false. Whether this means Assignment Ada or Separate Ways is still up for discussion, as you mentioned.

What we do know is that Separate Ways was written by Haruo Murata, who also worked on the scenario for RE5 and currently is the main writer for the series, having been involved with the most titles since 2003 (runner-ups being Yasuhiro Seto, Shotaro Suga and Yoshiaki Hirabayashi). So it seems strange that he would suddenly neglect his own work. As evidenced by the presence of certain areas unreachable without the hook shot (such as the barrels in the El Gigante corridor) and the story not making one whole of a lot sense without it, Separate Ways was planned and being worked on even before the GC version of RE4 came out (even though Kawata lied about it and said it was an idea that came up during the porting process). Assignment Ada does not contain any "technological marvels" either, so it could even be that it was originally part of Separate Ways until it was reworked to be a standalone mini-game with all the critical assets cut. Separate Ways itself later had all the things they couldn't create until the initial deadline: All of the cutscenes and their post-production (Wesker's command room scenes are mostly prerendered, for example), the completely new levels (shipyard and such), and the in-game physics for Ada's long red dress and the hook shot. I bet the whole separation would never have happened if the management staff of CAPCOM did not decide to release it on PS2 and not to postpone the GC version (which was only logical though, seeing how much money they lost with the development starting from scratch over and over).

The scenario of the main game was created by Shinji Mikami himself, and the communication script was done by Satoshi Yoshimatsu. It is not known what exactly the latter means: Mikami could have worked out the main game story alone (rescue of the president's daughter and the Spain setting, while the whole story is based on Ada's mission, and the Plaga sample aspect could have been provided by Murata who went uncredited since Separate Ways was not included initially) and Yoshimatsu wrote all the actual dialogue in the game. I don't know what the English version calls it anymore, but the Japanese version has the Hunnigan/Salazar/Saddler correspondences called "communications" (通信), so it might as well be that Yoshimatsu wrote only those.

Even the Biohazard 4 guidebook goes with Assignment Ada being the canon version of events (in which Wesker is controlling The Organization and Krauser is also a member)

It's an interesting notion that has crossed my mind from time to time, though it just doesn't work with the material we've got. One has to note that the interpretation of the "organization" has changed over time:

• Resident Evil 2 - Ada is said to be "one of the operatives sent [to Raccoon City] by the agency" (the Japanese versions are uniform in their usage of "soshiki" / "organization").
  
• CODE:Veronica - Wesker is said to have "sold [his] soul to a new organization" which "hired [him] to capture [Alexia]".
  
• Wesker's Report - Ada is said to be a member of the same organization and that it is an "opposing corporation of Umbrella" (in Japanese a "company opposing Umbrella", so not necessarily a pharmaceutical competitor).
  
• Resident Evil 4 - The "organization" and Ada are revealed to be secretly working against Wesker.
  
• The Umbrella Chronicles - Wesker says "Your actions in betraying us and helping that Leon fellow will have consequences for our organization" (Japanese version is basically the same, just without possessive pronouns: "And that guy named Leon, you're aware of the large damage caused to the organization by this betrayal?")
  
• The Darkside Chronicles -The Sacred Serpents Crime Syndicate is said to have "ties to Umbrella and Wesker's affiliate organizations" (Japanese version says almost the same: "deep ties to Umbrella as well as the organization(s) Wesker belongs to/is affiliated with").

Did I miss any mentions with new information?

Although, Prime Blue, if you want to take a closer look at the original text from which the "modified subordinate Plaga" comes from, here you go. I believe I've offered it to you a few times but I don't think you've ever actually translated it:

The whole thing with the modified subordinate Plaga is called a "guess", so considering it doesn't have to come from the original writers, I would take this with a (big) grain of salt.

How about that rather lengthy interview with Takeuchi in the The Art of Biohazard 5? I know they're releasing that in English come August, so I guess we can just wait until then to find out.

I skimmed over it and it's mostly development and design stuff.

[News Bot]

Well, I don't get then why you brought up the nonexistence of Type 3 in 2004.

Because the "modified subordinate Plagas" supposedly did exist at the time, so Type 3 couldn't exactly be the same thing if they came later.

[Guest]

Because the "modified subordinate Plagas" supposedly did exist at the time, so Type 3 couldn't exactly be the same thing if they came later.

You have to think "outside of the universe": "modified subordinate Plagas" first turned up April 30, 2009, with the release of the book – at a time where Type 3 had already been introduced.

[News Bot]

You have to think "outside of the universe": "modified subordinate Plagas" first turned up April 30, 2009, with the release of the book – at a time where Type 3 had already been introduced.

Ahhhh, so that's what you meant haha.

The whole thing is a twisted conundrum. I doubt the developers are exactly on the same page either on the issue. Biohazard 4's storyline doesn't make a whole lot of sense to begin with. I'm beginning to have reservations as to what Plaga Mendez is infected with, and whether Salazar even has one himself or if his mutation is just a by-product of being absorbed into that "Mother Plaga" organism.