Nintendo 3DS Released! (Also, Friend Codes here)

[Pikminister]

I actually think that its very naive to think this 2nd analog add-on will be a must-have requirement for 99.9% of the games that are made for the 3DS either now or in the future.

It's clear to me now, that the slide-pad analog is merely an option. An option designed exclusively for users that can't handle 1-analog gaming. The ones that grew up with the dualshock. For them, Ninty made this add-on.

And its not comparable at all to the Motion Plus add-on which was required to play Wii games designed to work with it. For instance, you will not be able to play the next Zelda without the wii motion plus. Yet you will be able to play every single 3DS game now in development even if you don't have the 2nd analog add-on. So there's no comparison.

[Dracarys]

An option designed exclusively for users that can't handle 1-analog gaming. The ones that grew up with the dualshock. For them, Ninty made this add-on.

Most games now cannot handle 1 analogue gaming, not unless they want to resemble some outdated relic from the 90s or at best last gen.

FPS is the easiest genre to make an example of, look at the control options we have.

1. Stick used to aim, XYBA to move forward/back/sidestep. Leaves only L and R buttons and D-pad. No adjusting movement speed with this method, limited buttons.

2. Stick use to move forward/back/turn. YXBA to sidestep/Look up and down. Still leaves only L, R, D-pad and no sensitivity in the aiming.

3. Stick to move forward/back/sidestep. Touchscreen to aim with a spring to centre on release. Frees YXBA buttons but pressing them and R especially is just awkward as hell and requires stop aiming to use them.


Imagine trying to play CoD with all the instant commands, accuracy, speed it requires.

[Pikminister]

Yeah, I've heard the same argument about 'modern games' needing 2 analogs. For recent gamers, that's a valid argument, but for some gamers that been at this thing for a while... not so much.

For a lot of FPS games, I've had no need of them at all. I can deal with 1 analog or even a D-pad to play said games (like you can do on the DS... a relatively 'modern' handheld). And I've had no need of them on a PC either.

During the N64 days I played every FPS available for it (Doom 64, Turok 1, 2 & 3, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Armorines, Duke Nukem Zero Hour, etc.). And as you know, the N64 controller had 1 single analog stick. And it never was an issue just having one of 'em.

Even on the Wii, you only have one analog to play with most FPS. And I've had long time PC FPS gamers tell me that playing FPS on said console (in terms of gameplay) is the best option there is aside from using a keyboard and a mouse.

But Nintendo agrees with you that some gamers that are relatively new, have come to expect playing with two analogs and thus why they are selling this add-on. Made especially for them.

As for me... I won't get it. Its too bulky.

[Kaneco]

Touchscreen camera is not innovaion, it is awkward to use shitness.

Says you...same goes to the people who think that controlling a camera with a mouse, not a joystick, is crap and vice-versa.

Metroid Prime Hunters had one of the best FPS controllers I've ever played, it brings both of best worlds.

Well, it's a matter of opinion and not a fact whether they're shitty or not....just like your comment.

The fact is....Touchscreen controls is indeed an innovation because it expands and adds to the experience, not take away.

[PracticalAl]

I'm with Pikminister. Revelations plays just fine in the demo wihtout a second analog pad. As does Mercenaries. I think the dual analog pad is a nice option for people who prefer it, and nothing more. Besides, none of the games that utilize it will require it. Everyone wins, right? ^^'..

..And even if Nintendo does redesign the 3DS with a second analog pad someday, it won't make the previous models useless. Nintendo's constant handheld revisions have never rendered the previous ones completely obsolete. All DS games can be played on fat, lite, DSi, and XL systems..

[Wrathborne]

http://the-magicbox.com/1109/game110913a.shtml

Here is some more info on it, My first thought when I saw this was' Nintendo..Why are you pulling a SEGA?" This is Bad...BAD!

[Humor Tumor]

Says you...same goes to the people who think that controlling a camera with a mouse, not a joystick, is crap and vice-versa.

Metroid Prime Hunters had one of the best FPS controllers I've ever played, it brings both of best worlds.

Well, it's a matter of opinion and not a fact whether they're shitty or not....just like your comment.

The fact is....Touchscreen controls is indeed an innovation because it expands and adds to the experience, not take away.

I agree. I played Dementium II with the ABXY to move setup, since I'm a leftie. And it worked perfectly fine for me.

But then again, I can handle not having dual analogs, as I grew up without those for a loooong time.

[Wrathborne]

http://kotaku.com/5840051/how-does-t...up-to-the-3dss
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Well, the 3DS still has better battery life than the PS Vita, course that is until the Gamers jail break it .

PS Vita: 3-5hrs
3DS: 6-8 hrs

[Dracarys]

Yeah, I've heard the same argument about 'modern games' needing 2 analogs. For recent gamers, that's a valid argument, but for some gamers that been at this thing for a while... not so much.

For a lot of FPS games, I've had no need of them at all. I can deal with 1 analog or even a D-pad to play said games (like you can do on the DS... a relatively 'modern' handheld). And I've had no need of them on a PC either.

During the N64 days I played every FPS available for it (Doom 64, Turok 1, 2 & 3, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Armorines, Duke Nukem Zero Hour, etc.). And as you know, the N64 controller had 1 single analog stick. And it never was an issue just having one of 'em.

Even on the Wii, you only have one analog to play with most FPS. And I've had long time PC FPS gamers tell me that playing FPS on said console (in terms of gameplay) is the best option there is aside from using a keyboard and a mouse.

But Nintendo agrees with you that some gamers that are relatively new, have come to expect playing with two analogs and thus why they are selling this add-on. Made especially for them.

As for me... I won't get it. Its too bulky.

See, you list old games as examples of what worked with one analogue stick. Do you not understand that games are more advanced nowdays? Seriously go watch a video of those games you list and then a video of a new CoD or BF, MoH, whatever.

They are worlds apart. FPS games never used to have a vertical aim axis, this doesn't mean they don't need one now.

I like you mention the wii also since that suffers horribly compared to PC/DA controls since movement while aiming is hindered heavily. Nearly all wii FPS games have resorted to adding a lock-on (not to be confused with aim assist) button so you just snap to an enemy and are forever facing them, Killzone 3 had to make use of one when using Move also.


...and I've been gaming since before the FPS genre existed, like that even matters for the argument anyway.

3DS: 6-8 hrs

More like 3-4 depending if using the online.

[Pikminister]

See, you list old games as examples of what worked with one analogue stick. Do you not understand that games are more advanced nowdays? Seriously go watch a video of those games you list and then a video of a new CoD or BF, MoH, whatever.

I was making the point that for some gamers with PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE dealing with FPS games that didn't use a single analog stick (or use just 1), this whole crap about needing a 2nd analog stick to play is a non-issue. It should not be a game breaker or anything close to it.

I also made the point that more recent gamers that grew up only using dual-shock controllers (the ones that started with the PS1, PS2 or even the PS3 and 360), having a 2nd analog is a bigger issue. To them its a thing of life or death (in a game) to have it. They suck without a 2nd analog stick. Therefore, I guess with the 3DS they will need to buy that add-on. Me? I have no freakin' need of it.

And I don't need to look at videos of 'modern' FPS. Cuz I play them all the time LOL. However, I had no trouble playing multi on Goldeneye on the N64 using 1 analog stick. Neither on the DS either (using the D-pad).

And if you want my opinion, especially with CoD games, modern FPS have been dumbed-down for casuals. That's right, casuals. That's why lots of core gamers hate CoD games. But that's another topic I don't wanna go into right now... Ok, just go to PSXextreme.com and seek out CoD news topics and read the comments it gets... lots of hate.

I like you mention the wii also since that suffers horribly compared to PC/DA controls since movement while aiming is hindered heavily. Nearly all wii FPS games have resorted to adding a lock-on (not to be confused with aim assist) button so you just snap to an enemy and are forever facing them, Killzone 3 had to make use of one when using Move also.

Not all FPS use that lock-on mechanism. And most games that have it actually make it possible to disable it. The Wiimote is used as a mouse on screen. You don't have to drag a pointer with an analog stick. You simply point and shoot. So it feels more natural and intuitive than using analogs.

But y'know... in the end its all about what seems right for you. If you need a 2nd analog on your 3DS.... You got an option now. Buy it and enjoy.

[Dracarys]

And I don't need to look at videos of 'modern' FPS. Cuz I play them all the time LOL. However, I had no trouble playing multi on Goldeneye on the N64 using 1 analog stick. Neither on the DS either (using the D-pad).

It is like you understood nothing in my last post.

[Pikminister]

It is like you understood nothing in my last post.

Considering that you didn't get my previous post before the last, we're even.

Besides, the dualshock is practically as old as the N64 1 analog control pad. It came out a year after the N64 came out. So playing with 1 analog can be just as 'modern' as the other option.

But like I said, Ninty gave ppl an option to play like mainstream gamers do (with two analogs). So... what's the problem again?

[Kaneco]

You should try any N64 Turok game, it's a great example that there's no need for two dual-sticks in every FPS games or at all.

[Rick Hunter]

Basically what you're saying is that you can compare the gameplay of a FPS released in 1997 to nowadays shooters?

I don't really think the argument is valid. Now the gameplay is usually much more fast-paced.

[Beanovsky Durst]

I think there are ways to pull FPS controls on 3DS as it is.

Let's try a "Turok" controller scheme, where you aim with the circle pad, move with the ABYX buttons, shoot with R trigger, melee/action with L trigger and throw grenades with the motion sensor. Change weapons with D-Pad. And we still have the touch screen free.

Problem is that we would lose the ability to switch between running and walking, but if everything is fast-paced, why we would need to walk huh? Just saying.

[Dracarys]

Besides, the dualshock is practically as old as the N64 1 analog control pad. It came out a year after the N64 came out. So playing with 1 analog can be just as 'modern' as the other option.

Except ALL PS1 games except a select few had to support the original controller nearly all never took advantage of DA controls. Did you play games back then? Even last gen the DA scheme wasn't used for many games still because the GC only had one (real) stick. There is a reason FPS has gaming taken off this gen and it because all FPS games started making use of DA scheme to be competitive and better emulate PC controls. Funny how the FPS genre not exploded on the Wii. I'm sure multiplayer will be mentioned but all games can make use of that yet FPS and the a lesser extent TPS are the ones that exploded.

I think there are ways to pull FPS controls on 3DS as it is.

Let's try a "Turok" controller scheme, where you aim with the circle pad, move with the ABYX buttons, shoot with R trigger, melee/action with L trigger and throw grenades with the motion sensor. Change weapons with D-Pad. And we still have the touch screen free.

Problem is that we would lose the ability to switch between running and walking, but if everything is fast-paced, why we would need to walk huh? Just saying.

This was my first example some posts ago. If you really need to ask why we need to walk in modern FPS games maybe you're not a great judge of current needs of FPS games.

Your lists of actions is missing sprint, iron-sighting/scoping, jumps, ducks, reloads etc etc. Maybe the touchscreen could replace things like reloads or perk activations but most actions need an quick found button that can be used seamlessly with others (like sprinting adjusting direction while also hitting knife/melee) and a touchscreen doesn't provide that.

In Black Ops for example players often sprint then jump and go into prone while at the same time scoping in and firing while adjusting aim.

Please tell me how this works on a 3DS? It only has 6 buttons and 5 are used for the above example alone, plus a movement input is required as well as aiming all at once almost and there are no inputs left.

[Pikminister]

KylieDog, I just wrote a long ass reply to your post but I got an error message about not being logged in and lost the whole damn thing in the process. I can't be arsed into writing it all over again.

But here's a short version... heh heh!

About the relatively new scheme that makes FPS easier to play - I already covered the dumbing-down of FPS games. Noticed that this was mostly done or implemented soon after PC FPS gamers started emigrating to consoles and demanding a scheme that covered all their needs. Cuz they really hated how such games would play like on a console.

About FPS making it big this generation... again, this was a direct result of PC gamers joining forces with their long-time antagonists (regular console gamers) on the home front. That made it entirely possible for the FPS/TPS genres to reach mainstream status like never before.

Therefore, there was a need to dumb things down for mainstream gamers. So much so, that it's at present very rare when you don't run into an 8 year old who wants to rip you a new one on CoD or one of its clones. I mean, the games are THAT easy now.

About FPS not being big on the Wii... that's obvious. That has nothing to do with the control scheme and everything to do with the crap online service and last-gen graphics. However, every CoD title on the Wii sold well beyond the 1 million mark. So even there you got casuals doing their stuff!

Anywhoo... I'm done with this argument.

All I know is that the slide-pad add-on is just an option for those that need it and its not a requirement to play any 3DS games.

Shit, Nintendo didn't even give that 2nd analog add-on the time of day during the recent TGS. So based on that, you can probably figure out how much support it will get from said company (look at the amount of games by Ninty that support it = ZERO ).

Considering the lousy support that Ninty historically has given to their add-ons and peripherals... I rather stay clear of this new one.

How about you?....

[Dracarys]

CoD is not dumbed down in controls. What make CoD dumbed down is the incredible high damage that means don't need a steady aim, silly things like instant knife that leaps you forward for an instant kill and killstreaks/perks that get skilless kills, Martydom, attack helos etc etc.

Controls have done nothing but become more complex.

We shall need return to this when a FPS releases on 3DS and it is shit.

[Pikminister]

We shall need return to this when a FPS releases on 3DS and it is shit.

Agreed. But remember that it all depends on who makes it and how they work their FPS game into the 3DS. It may very well suck because they suck at adapting it to the handheld.

In my previous version of my last post I had written how FPS games already work on the DS. And how they could work on the 3DS, mentioning some of the capabilities it has. For example, using the gyroscope to peek around corners and stuff (while standing still).

Anyway, I think the slide-pad add-on looks decent. I thought it looked bigger in some of the ealier pics of it. But now it seems okay in terms of size (still smaller than a Sony Vita):

[PracticalAl]

If anyone wants the official "CAPCOM Jill Valentine Mii" from this year's TGS, here is the QR code:



(Once you scan it, if you delete the Mii you won't be able to get it back.) Eh, it doesn't look anything like her.. Oh, and there is a Parker one too, but I haven't seen it anywhere.. Not that I want it.. >__>;..