A Game of Thrones Television Adaptation on HBO/BBC

[valentinesdead?]

So, anyone been watching season 2 over the past couple of months? After getting caught up in the semester, and thus dragging through A Clash of Kings very, VERY slowly, I dedicated all last week to finishing the novel and watching the blu ray for season 1(episodes, audio commentaries, and special features all). To sum up my thoughts on the 9 episodes so far--there's SO MUCH to love, barring a few minor quips, and a couple "why the fuck did you change/alter that?" It's really hard to say one scene or story stands out, since there's just such a wealth of great scenes and acting from all the cast. I suppose my favorite bits are the endings to episode 4, 7, and 9--all masterfully done. My only major beefs are not having Meera/Jojen Reed involved in Bran's story arch, nor "Reek" being apart of Theon's. The story ended up being a bit more condescend than I would have preferred, but understandable given the amount of content. This shouldn't be much a problem going forward though, since book 3 and 4/5 are most likely going to be 2 seasons each to tell their respective stories(with a little overlap between each I'm sure). Can't wait for episode 10 tommrow to wrap it all up, and see how they're going to end it and build the anticipation for those who haven't read the books.


The battle is over. We have won!

Tywin Lannister is boss. So is Stannis.

[Dracarys]

Season 2 has butchered the story too much for me to really enjoy it. Adding things never in the book and that are not needed which just cuts into running time which already isn't enough to get everything in. Way too many changes that were just not needed also and have no reason for being. Thanks to some of these changes it has also ruined some mysteries left in the lastest books.

Blackwater was a great episode, the rest not so much.

[valentinesdead?]

I can't say I really agree with that. . .though maybe because I just look at the series anyways as a great visual companion to the novels. If you're judging it as a possible replacement for the books, then yeah, I'd probably dislike a lot of the changes or additions, but they honestly don't bother me because hey, they only have so much time and budget at the end of the day. Nothing will replace the books, and I would always recommend reading them before the series, because they are the source, and the series is an adaptation. I actually like how we get to see different viewpoints fleshed out that aren't possible in the books themselves because of the restricted POV's.

But funny enough, I almost think I'd have to recommend people read the 3rd book before watching the second season because of a few things that are "spoiled" I suppose you could say. (Robb and Jeyne, Jaime and Brienne, etc). Not to mention a few book 3 conversations that got pulled into season 2, which struck me as odd. All the Jon/Ygritte stuff took my by complete surprise, though it's hard to fault because I really enjoyed those scenes, but yeah, not exactly what happened with Jon and the Halfhand near the end of book 2. Though, I was really, really disappointed in the casting for Halfhand. Barely resembles Halfhand in the books. Plus, why write out Stannis's queen and his daughter?

[Dracarys]

I think Arya has been the biggest victim, since in the books she really struggles and has to cope with a lot. In the series most of her roughness is completely cut and she barely faces anything, then gets an easy time serving Tywin.

Season 1 was so perfect compared to the book, I just expected better of season 2 I guess. It is the needless changes that annoy me, changes that need not be made and do not add to the story. Jeyne Westerling did not need be replaced with some volantine tart, Dany's character is being made to look weak with the crying about her Dragon's too, they were never stolen and she went to the house of the undying to learn her fate. The thirteen are all well and healthy and didn't all get slain, and they were all meant to be white ('the milk men'), unlike Xaro.

[valentinesdead?]

Season 2 did end up being a bit more condescend in comparison to the first season. But looking at the bigger picture, season 3/4 will be spread over book 3(and maybe a bit of A Feast and A Dance near the end), so hopefully they'll be able to decompress enough so they won't have to make the few more drastic changes they made compared to the first season. Aryra's journey is certainly more brutal in the books(though I do love the scenes between her and Tywin). While I do question changing Jeyne's origion from a small house Westero's lady to a Voltantis one, I'm still glad they've fleshed her and Robb out. After all, that should make the RW all the more tragic for non-readers in season 3, since the books simply dump her at the doorstep around the beginning of book 3. Still not sure how I feel about the alterations with Dany in Qarth. Feels like they didn't want to minimize the role for this season(since really, she doesn't end up doing that much). But heck, they kept Jaime out the picture most the season anyways(Despite saying it would be "different" than the book in EW), so I sorta agree maybe they could have used some of the screentime to incorporate more of what actually happened in the book. I'm really disappointed that "Reek" isn't involved in Theon's story. Makes him murdering those two millhouse kids more his action than Reek playing the little devil whispering in his ear at his most desperate and vulnerable moment. Not to mention, how the Theon/Reek thing turns out. . .

[Dracarys]

Bran having the visions/dreams is another annoying change, practically makes Jojen half his worth, also disliked Jaime killing his cousin, makes future events harder to swallow.

[valentinesdead?]

But Bran did have the "green" dreams though. Though, the importance of them is lost since Meera and Jojen aren't there to tell him what they are, thus he can't struggle with whether they're actually real or not, so yeah, I agree. I really loved Jaime killing his cousin though. Sure, he didn't in the books, but that scene was so well-written and executed. Really sets up what a survivor Jaime is, and how far his character has to go as he changes. One of my favorite scenes of the season, along with his scene with Cat where he calls her out on her and Ned's hypocrisy. Though, no surprise, Jaime is one of my favorite characters in the series. The stuff between him and Brienne should be amazing next season. I only hope there able to do the Bear pit scene, along with sneaking in the song The Bear and the Maiden.

[Dracarys]

I liked Jaime after 'you know what' happens to him. Also really like Jon (OMG@ ADWD ending), Dany, Stannis, Tyrion and Arya. Sansa perhaps most most disliked character, especially during GOT, not a fan of Cersei, Quentyn (lol), Connington, anyone from dorne really or Brienne. Theon is just pathetic, Asha not so bad, Davos and Melisandre are ok but I don'tlook forward to them like others.

[valentinesdead?]

I suppose if I had to pick my top 3 characters, it would be Jaime, Jon, and Dany (in no particular order). Granted, I love most the characters anyway, so it's hard to really pick and choose who's the tops, but I suppose I pick those three because of there various storylines through the series. I suppose also because book 3 is where Jaime and Jon really break out as fully developed characters(they have the most interesting conflicts and character development), and Dany's best outing story-wise was definitely book 3. She has some hiccups in book 5, but I suppose that was the point that she's still a teenage girl, and an a bit naiver than she would like to believe, but seems like she's about to get her head on straight and get on course, so I'm okay with it. Tyrion's certainly also a favorite of the series(who really doesn't like Tyrion though, lol). I actually do like Cersei on some levels thanks to her POV in A Feast, but she certainly still has her up-and-comings to get(hopefully Jaime will end up delivering them, lol). I wasn't too fond of Stannis earlier in the books(I was totally for Renly during book 2), but really grown to like his character(And really, he probably make a good, fair king. Charm be damned). It's understable Theon might not be a favorite(considering what he did to the mil kids), but I think he had his huge redemption arc in A Dance, and paid for his "sins", if you will. His character itself is just very interesting and complex and nuanced. I also really like Brienne too, because of her "pure" , somewhat naive morality, that's almost the same as Ned Stark. Of course, that's what I loved so much about Jaime/Brienne's relationship in book 3. I've liked Davos somewhat, and Asha has grown on me in A Dance.

(Btw, as far as Jon in a Dance is concerned. . .I don't think he's out of it just yet. . .I think he is AA and not Stannis--"the prince that was promised". . .whatever that means)

[Dracarys]

Gonna put Jon discussion in spoiler tags

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Are lots of directions he can go, he could straight up survive the attack, otherwise Melisandre could either heal him or straight up give him the kiss of life much like others characters have recieved, he could also have Warged into someone or something.

I believe Jon to be the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, Ned was so honourable it seems out of character for him to cheat, and being the son of Rhaegar king Robert would have wanted him dead, especially after her death. She made Ned promise something we've never known, I think it was to protect Jon. This can still explain his warg abilities since he is still the Stark bloodline, it could later tie into the Dragons also.

Dany maybe AA, she was born on Dragonstone, a volcanic (smoke) isle in the sea (salt), and of course the dragons. "Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone"

[valentinesdead?]

Gonna put Jon discussion in spoiler tags

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Are lots of directions he can go, he could straight up survive the attack, otherwise Melisandre could either heal him or straight up give him the kiss of life much like others characters have recieved, he could also have Warged into someone or something.

I believe Jon to be the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, Ned was so honourable it seems out of character for him to cheat, and being the son of Rhaegar king Robert would have wanted him dead, especially after her death. She made Ned promise something we've never known, I think it was to protect Jon. This can still explain his warg abilities since he is still the Stark bloodline, it could later tie into the Dragons also.

Dany maybe AA, she was born on Dragonstone, a volcanic (smoke) isle in the sea (salt), and of course the dragons. "Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone"

Spoiler:

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I was so pissed after I read that chapter after he apparently "Robb'ed" Jon, but my own writer's instincts, along with reading in the Westeros forums and learning about the different theories and such, made me realise that dying may have been the best thing to happen to Jon, since when the resurrection happens, he's no longer bound to the Nightwatch. While it's not necessary certain if Jon is AA or Rhaegar and Lyanna's son 100%, quite a few things do point in that direction. It make sense that Ned would claim Jon as his bastard, since Lyanna's death happened after King Aery's death and Ser Gregor's massacre of the remaining royal bloodline at Tywin Lannister's command. Ned knew because of that that Robert would certainly kill the boy. There's also the fact that originally we're told by Robert in the 1st book that Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna and raped her. . .but I'm starting to believe she ran away with him. He gave her the Rose after all in that tourney held at Casterly Rock, and it's stated a few times that Rhaegar didn't exactly love Princess Elia. Also, Bran saw that flashback from the Winterfell Godswood of Ned praying that the two children grow up together like "brothers", which also leads credence that Jon isn't actually Neds.

I'm personally kinda torn about the idea, cause I sorta liked the idea of Ned being his father, but there's also phrase that pops up in the books that the "Dragon has three-heads." Dany is one, while Jon would be two. The only hint, besides the Rhagear/Lyanna theory, is that when John was stabbed, steam hissed out one of his wounds. The third head might possibly by Tyrion, sense I believe it was hinted that Aery's had an affair with Tywin's wife, plus Tyrion didn't contract the greyscale when he fell off the ship into the water while Ser Cornnet(is that the character? Hard to remember) eventually did. "Aegon" most likely isn't, as the prophecy Dany receives in the house of the undying mentions the "mummer's dragon", along with a dragon on a paper cloth, which translates to "Aegon" being Vary's puppet. There was also a scene in one of the doors Dany saw of Rhagear playing the harp to a woman with a baby. I'm not sure if that was meant to be Elia or Lyanna, because the woman never named, and Rhaegar mentions to name the baby Aegon, so I'm not sure if that's me reading into it or not, lol.

Also, if I remember correctly, there may be a fourth "stone" dragon that might come into play, that was vaguely hinted at in either book 3 or 5--can't remember. Dany certainly fits 2/3's of the AA propechy, since she is of Targaryen descent, and birthed the dragons, but AA must die and come back. . .so I'm thinking John might end up being the "true" AA, since I'm thinking if Dany died, there's no chance of her resurrecting. John has the warg ability after all, so he might have been able to jump into Ghost or something to stay "alive".

Though, some people think Jon may come back as a wright of some sort, because apparently Snow and Ghost is a bit of a wordplay of an "undead" form. Don't know if I would like that, or him heading far north. I really, really want to see him take the reins of the North and pick up winning the Kingdom over where Robb left off. . .at least until the Others break the Wall and start sweeping over Westeros.

[Dracarys]

I tried reading some fan theories but the forums are so busy is hard to keep track, plus I'm not registered on any fan forums.

I theory I've been digging up by re-reading some books I've not seen anywhere, seen parts of it but not all.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Dany has some dreams in GOT and some come true, others don't...at least not yet maybe. This is before the dragons.

Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. “You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. And if in answer there was a great hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found her, she woke...

Viserys being violent towards her he seemed to always be so nothing new there but, thick and ungainly (pregnant), her thighs thick with blood (stillbirth/abortion), Viserys being gone (dead)...and the dragon is obvious.

She has another dream that may think is the awakening of the dragon, but I have another theory due to end of ADWD.

When she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. It was only her and the dragon. It’s scales were black and night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, flame came out in a hot jet. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

Was this in a ADWD? The dragon description is Drogon. She is exposed the the dragon fire and seems to 'rebirth' her (AA....), in the book after she is burnt by Drogon while attempting to ride him she seems to start having periods again, despite up until then not being able to have children.

This and something else also ties into Mirri Maz Duur’s prophecy about Drogo.

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

So...her womb just quickened, Quentyn Martell is from Sunspear and have a sun on their banner, he travelled from the west where he was born to the east, and died (set). I don't have anything for the seas going dry yet (maybe Victarion Greyjoy related?) or mountains blowing in the wind (the wall coming apart?) but Dany can be pregnant again.

Maybe something with this, kind of like a Macbeth trick with a man not born of woman and forest moving. Or maybe not.

[valentinesdead?]

I tried reading some fan theories but the forums are so busy is hard to keep track, plus I'm not registered on any fan forums.

I theory I've been digging up by re-reading some books I've not seen anywhere, seen parts of it but not all.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Dany has some dreams in GOT and some come true, others don't...at least not yet maybe. This is before the dragons.

Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. “You woke the dragon,” he screamed as he kicked her. “You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon.” Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. And if in answer there was a great hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found her, she woke...

Viserys being violent towards her he seemed to always be so nothing new there but, thick and ungainly (pregnant), her thighs thick with blood (stillbirth/abortion), Viserys being gone (dead)...and the dragon is obvious.

She has another dream that may think is the awakening of the dragon, but I have another theory due to end of ADWD.

When she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. It was only her and the dragon. It’s scales were black and night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, flame came out in a hot jet. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

Was this in a ADWD? The dragon description is Drogon. She is exposed the the dragon fire and seems to 'rebirth' her (AA....), in the book after she is burnt by Drogon while attempting to ride him she seems to start having periods again, despite up until then not being able to have children.

This and something else also ties into Mirri Maz Duur’s prophecy about Drogo.

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

So...her womb just quickened, Quentyn Martell is from Sunspear and have a sun on their banner, he travelled from the west where he was born to the east, and died (set). I don't have anything for the seas going dry yet (maybe Victarion Greyjoy related?) or mountains blowing in the wind (the wall coming apart?) but Dany can be pregnant again.

Maybe something with this, kind of like a Macbeth trick with a man not born of woman and forest moving. Or maybe not.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

Lol--I was just browsing the ASOFAI forums a couple days ago after I'd finished a Clash. . .and apparnetly now you must join the site to broswe. Lame. Guess I'll have to join then. But anyways. . .

Wow, that's a really good find. Yeah, that vision of Drogon breathing fire on her is certainly meant to be what happened in the Meeran collusism in A Dance. Though, about her being reborn. . .while she didn't really *die*, I was sorta thrown off that she actually suffered burn injuries as noted in the last chapter, considering I thought she was totally immune to fire, which may be a hint that Drogon bathing her in fire triggered something else. I thought the blood she was leaking might have had something to do with those berries she ate that caused her to shit(that was the first time I've ever read about a character's "stool", lol), but that actually does make sense it was meant to show her womb is working again. The whole Martel thing of him being the sun is clever--totally wouldn't have thought of that. The wall breaking would certainly fit "mountains blowing in the wind" since I believe the Giant's Horn never actually got destroyed. . .or it has twin. The sea drying up seems pretty impossible, but I take that to maybe be referencing Euron stealing the other two of Dany's dragons by using that dragon horn of his. I pretty much predict she'll only be left with Drogon. Interesting enough, Drogon was the dragon she took with her in the House of the Undying, she seems like another nod to their bond, as well as he was the one who saved her from the Undying taking her lifeforce/sucking her dry. But yeah, it's hard to say who really is AA reborn, Dany or Jon, both have certain pieces to it. . .but it's just not clear yet. Maybe there both actually AA, like two halves of one whole--man/woman. Lol--it's all a theories game at this point. I sorta interested to read more up on A Dance With Dragon's conclusions and see what people think now. I hadn't looked for most the year since I finished reading it not counting a couple days ago.

[Dracarys]

So what did you think of the finale?

Spoiler:

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Theon was funny but not really fitting of the books, Danys scenes I just wasn't feeling, and I don't remember the dragons breathing fire before that moment. The scene is a rip off of a part in Astapor, but int he books she already knows they can breathe fire since what happens in house of the undying, where Drogon is the only dragon inside and he burns the ghosts in protection of her without command. The wizard was pretty stupid to not expect fire.

[valentinesdead?]

Spoiler:

show spoiler

I'm rather mixed about it, honestly. There were a lot of great scenes, though it felt like Dany and Theon got the short end of the stick. The climax to Theon's arch got turned into a silly gag(instead of the dramatic, holy shit moment it should have been), but the House of the Undying was extremely underwhelming. I really liked the Khal Drogo bit, but it's like they completely missed the entire point of the House of the Undying. The twist with Xaro and Doreah really seemed rather ridiculous--less a clever Martin twist, but a lame tv cliche drama one. No substance to it. . .but I think that's how most the Qarth adaptation feels. I think, taking into account all of the Qarth segement now the season is over, the producers over-reached a good deal more than they should in the "making-it-up land", and just really sullied what was a great, ominous shadow of future prophecies and uncertainly in the books(plus, no Strong Belwas ). They obviously must realize that Xaro shows up in A Dance of Dragons, so it just really seems like a dumb choice(of course, they could easily say he got out someone I suppose, but still, really lame). Not to mention poor Doreah. I don't think she really would have betrayed Dany. If they wanted to get rid of her, I don't see why they didn't just kill her off like Martin did. It would have made a good enough heartfelt scene. So overall, I think Dany really suffered the most as far as adapting the material this season. "Less is more" probably would have been better than trying make more stuff up to give her more scenes.

But, what's done is done, I suppose. I still believe they can get back to being more faithful starting with next season, so with perpesctive, I think the few misgivings of this season will be extremely easy to overlook in the future.

As far as my favorite scenes, I really liked the Tyrion scene with Vary's and Shae. So well done, as well as the Stannis-Red Priestess scene. Especially the ending shot.



The scene between Master Luwin and Theon was great as well.



I will kill that man. I don't care how many arrows they feather me with, or how my spears they run through me--I will kill that horn-blowing cunt!

And of course, the ending shot of Sam and The Other's was a great way to end the season. . .and remind the audience how the real threat is marching forward while the realm is fighting against each other.

Checked out the soundtrack for Season 2, by any chance? Really, really love Ramin's score for the series. He better not get replaced!

[Dracarys]

I dislike the look of the Others the TV show uses, I imagine them to be more human looking and I'm sure this is from descriptions. A no on the soundtrack.

[valentinesdead?]

Are you specifically talking about the one's on horseback at the end, or in general? The ones in season 1 were pretty much human, but also at the end, most of them were(or that's what I thought). I do believe in book 3 a few are described just like the ones on horseback. I think there supposed to be really old frozen corpses.from 1000's of years ago since they last woke or whatever. Not 100%, but that was the impression I got.

[Vector]

The ones on horseback are White Walkers, or Others. Everything else was reanimated corpses, basically zombies, or Wights. Others are described almost exactly as they look in the show. Humanoid with icy white skin.

[Dracarys]

I wonder if the Others are all advanced Wargs. Able to skinchange in many dead bodies at once, would explain wights.

[Inferno04]

Well, having never read the books and after trying to avoid the show(I try not to get involved in shows with so many characters) I have been pulled in. Friend convinced me when I went to hang out with him. I kept asking questions as things went on and was very invested. It took one episode, really one scene to get me interested. "A crown for a king..."