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Thread: Resident Evil 6 Leon Gameplay Video

  1. #21
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    But Jill was infected. Not like the other majini, but she was infected with something. We later find out it's P30, but at the time Chris didn't know nor did he have any indication on how to save her until the device was seen. Till then getting beaten up was not a strategy. He didn't want to kill her and was prone to getting attacked.

    And shock comes in forms of reason. Stay back is a clear defense. Not because Leon wouldn't shoot him (he did) but because he didn't want to.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    But Jill was infected. Not like the other majini, but she was infected with something. We later find out it's P30, but at the time Chris didn't know nor did he have any indication on how to save her until the device was seen. Till then getting beaten up was not a strategy. He didn't want to kill her and was prone to getting attacked.

    And shock comes in forms of reason. Stay back is a clear defense. Not because Leon wouldn't shoot him (he did) but because he didn't want to.
    Chris didn't even try to fend her off, because he himself knew she was under some sort of control rather than infection ("Jill ... It's me Chris!"), also notice how he doesn't hesitate to shoot for her FACE while she still has the mask on, yet doesn't even try to fend her off after he finds out it's Jill. Right from the moment he sees it's Jill, he knows she's being controlled (his quote, and also Wesker's taunts easily give it away). Not attacking her is one thing, but he didn't even bother defending himself after he saw her face.

    And doesn't matter what Leon wanted to do or not, "stay back" to a zombie from an experienced agent who's killed thousands of zombies is out of place in every way possible. Hesitating, while also out of place, still can be justified to a small degree, but the other inconsistency cannot be.

    It doesn't matter who the person is, after 15 years of zombie and bow killing, you DO NOT tell a mindless ZOMBIE to stand back. This isn't a bank robbery, especially when you aren't a newcomer to the situation.

    Last edited by ElusionM; 06-20-2012 at 11:46 PM.

  3. #23
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    Infection and control are still one in the same thing in this series. You like quotes, and Salazar/Saddler have some good ones in RE4 about being under their control.

    Jill was infected with P30. Being under Wesker's control doesn't take that away. And regardless, Chris had no idea what she was infected with or if there was a way to save her until later on.

    By Chris not hesitating to shoot Jill when she was disguised and then not being able to kill her once her identity is revealed, you just provided yourself with enough reason to know why protagonists have a hard time killing people they're close to.

    Leon hesitated because he knew the President. To him, it wasn't just a mindless zombie to put down. He has memories and a friendship with that person. He didn't want to put him down, but knew he would eventually have to.

    The key to knowing that is when he tells Hunnigan he shot the President. Your quip of subtlety doesn't excuse that he was still broken down from doing it. He doesn't excuse the fact that he was infected like Helena did. And that's because to him the President meant more.

    You seem to have a problem understanding that.
    Last edited by Smiley; 06-21-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    Infection and control are still one in the same thing in this series. You like quotes, and Salazar/Saddler have some good ones in RE4 about being under their control.

    Jill was infected with P30. Being under Wesker's control doesn't take that away. And regardless, Chris had no idea what she was infected with or if there was a way to save her until later on.

    By Chris not hesitating to shoot Jill when she was disguised and then not being able to kill her once her identity is revealed, you just provided yourself with enough reason to know why protagonists have a hard time killing people they're close to.

    Leon hesitated because he knew the President. To him, it wasn't just a mindless zombie to put down. He has memories and a friendship with that person. He didn't want to put him down, but knew he would eventually have to.

    The key to knowing that is when he tells Hunnigan he shot the President. Your quip of subtlety doesn't excuse that he was still broken down from doing it. He doesn't excuse the fact that he was infected like Helena did. And that's because to him the President meant more.

    You seem to have a problem understanding that.
    No they aren't. Jill was under action control, not even mind control as per her own words ("I was aware of everything"). She even went as far as resisting and letting go of Chris near the elevator, something the Ganados and Majinis were incapable of, for they were controlled via infection, but Jill was only controlled via device (which affected her in no ways other than physical actions, even those which were broken despite the fact it was an advanced staged).

    Chris and Leon's situtations are not even comparable (like it is with Steve's), because on one hand the protagonist is fully aware that the "enemy" is only under mind control but completely human, and on the other hand we have a completely offed, fully infected and active zombie, both by actions and looks. Chris didn't want to kill someone who wasn't in the right mental state (and as later revealed, she was in fact in the right mental state, just not physical), and Jill was fully human and showed no signs of infection at all. Chris had every single reason to not pull the trigger after he found out it was Jill.

    Leon on the other hand, like I said a million times already but I'll say it again in hopes you grasp onto it, just witnessed the guy feasting on human flesh, but he tells him to "STAND BACK". No one is denying the initial shock, or even the hesitation, it's telling a ZOMBIE, a type you killed nearly a thousand of, then killed a thousand more advanced ones, to stand back. Add 15 years of physical and mental training, and you got yourself an even shittier situation. Add the RE2 scenario, and everything is covered in shit by now.

    If anything, you fail to understand what's being discussed here. Leon had no excuse or reason to tell a zombie he witnessed devouring another human being, to "stand back". Whether you see it or not, the book is open, and inconsistency is the only word printed.

    And thats not even counting all the other things, unless you believe the old man and his daughter were Leon's relatives, which is why he didn't show any signs of being alert around them as they carried a bloody, coughing girl who's unable to walk on her own, while a 3 mile zombie outbreak scales around them.
    Last edited by ElusionM; 06-21-2012 at 12:29 AM.

  5. #25
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    Where is that coming from? You're only accounting for an infection based on the host's state of mind. Something of which isn't even relevant because someone infected with las plagas will have a different mind set than someone infected with the T-virus. And yet here you are saying Jill isn't infected when it's been established that she was and furthermore the concept of "control" plays out just as well with las plagas.

    I also have to keep reminding you that Chris had no idea what she was infected with or how it was working until later during their encounter. All he knew was that Jill was different. She has "powers" and was using them to try and kill Chris and his partner. He had no way of knowing if he could save her and left himself vulnerable for attack until a weakness was inevitably found through her actions.

    Whether Jill fought off her infection doesn't dismiss anything either. She still succumbed to P30. Steve fought off the effects of his infected condition to save Claire. Curtis Miller in Degeneration fought off the G virus momentarily to tell Angela to keep away from him so he wouldn't hurt her.

    You're pulling random defenses from nowhere when the series has established many examples that prove to show protagonists like Leon, Steve, Carlos and Chris are not as cold blooded when it comes to the people they are close to. And even less to show that a person's will cannot fight off an infected state.
    Last edited by Smiley; 06-21-2012 at 12:39 AM.

  6. #26

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    And you continue to fail to understand that no one is talking about hesitation, but the fact Leon told a ZOMBIE to stand back. There is NOTHING that can justify this when you are an experienced survivor with blood of 2,000 BOWs on your hands, 15 years of physical, mental and emotional training, and a record of being unmoved by zombies as a rookie. You do not, do not, tell a zombie to stand back after all that. Don't see how it's so difficult for you to understand such a simple claim, backed up by a number of factual references. Instead, you're clinging onto his hesitation to kill an old friend, in hopes you have some argument. When it's actually funny, how his hesitation even is off and inconsistent at a deeper look (but at least understandable, as opposed to the problem at hand).

    Edit: Jill's situation is still not comparable. Leon didn't face Adam and say "Adam, it's me Leon", why? Because he KNEW Adam was long gone, all it was now was a zombie. Whereas Chris KNEW it was still Jill, hence he instantly lowers his gun and starts trying to bring her to her senses. The two situations are day and night.
    Last edited by ElusionM; 06-21-2012 at 12:49 AM.

  7. #27
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    It was a defense reaction to seeing a friend infected. Telling him to stay where he is was his way of stalling. It's part of his hesitation. And it's different than a random zombie because it's a friend he knew personally. Someone close to him was affected which is different and a natural human reaction.

    It's why a doctor wouldn't do surgery on his own daughter unless he was the only one who can do it. Or why a hunter has a hard time putting down their own dog but no qualms shooting a deer. If it becomes personal then logic and rationalizing become a problem.

    I'm not sure this is as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. So by all means agree to disagree. But I'll let the examples speak for themselves.
    Last edited by Smiley; 06-21-2012 at 12:56 AM.

  8. #28
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    Edit: Double post error.
    Last edited by Smiley; 06-21-2012 at 12:55 AM.

  9. #29
    #35 Nemesis Vito's Avatar
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    I'm gonna laugh so loud if that line "Stand Back" is a mistranslation. =P

  10. #30
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    Even if it was, the scene plays out with Leon stalling.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    It was a defense reaction to seeing a friend infected. Telling him to stay where he is was his way of stalling. It's part of his hesitation. And it's different than a random zombie because it's a friend he knew personally. Someone close to him was affected which is different and a natural human reaction.

    It's why a doctor wouldn't do surgery on his own daughter unless he was the only one who can do it. Or why a hunter has a hard time putting down their own dog but no qualms shooting a deer. If it becomes personal then logic and rationalizing become a problem.

    I'm not sure this is as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. So by all means agree to disagree. But I'll let the examples speak for themselves.
    Yet you still don't get it. You just proved it yourself, that the whole situation was stupid; since Leon KNEW the president was a zombie, stalling it only makes things worse for his case (in script, not in terms of danger). You can't label the shortcoming and inconsistency with "stalling", because he stalled nothing by telling the president to stand back (this alone proves the foolishness of his statement, the zombie didn't hesitate for a milli second even). Him not pulling the trigger is understandable, but calling out to any living dead, doesn't matter if it was his brother Arnold S. Kennedy, the statement "stand back" to a zombie with 15 years of everything mentioned, itself is wrong in every way possible.

    You'll have to come up with something better than "the president was his best friend, so it's totally normal for him to try to tell him to stand back". Because last I recall, no rookie Leon did that, nor a 17 year inexperienced weak child.
    Last edited by ElusionM; 06-21-2012 at 01:14 AM.

  12. #32
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    It's irrational and would be logical to just shoot him. But that's the point of being conflicted.

  13. #33

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    Which brings us back to the original cause of concern, that Capcom is taking the naive and soft character concept too far, to the point Leon sounds and looks like an idiot. Let's just hope he only makes these mistakes in the University portion of the game; the manipulation is a given (confirmed even), but at least that makes sense and isn't off for his character.

    Overall, liking the direction they're taking despite some shortcomings. Leon with his RE2 characteristics, stripped of the ridiculous and lame attitude he had in 4 and degen, sounds great. And the fact he's finally serious is a great touch as well. Just hope Capcom kept all their new ideas and changes moderate and not too extreme following the examples of what's shown in the demo.

  14. #34
    #55 Oswell E. Spencer Dracarys's Avatar
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    One look at Jill in RE6 and it is clear she is not a majini, combined with the non-majini abilities further highlighting that she not infected is instant hope she could be saved. Plus that 'Kennedy report' Chris read no doubt mentioned Leon and Ashley being cured of plagas, so even if Chris did think she was plaga infected (extremely doubtful, but even if he did) there was still good reason to believe she could be saved still.

    No such case for Leon, the way he behaves in the entire demo walkthrough is like someone who never seen an infection or zombie before, right from the start with the president to the blatently infected father and daughter, and thinking he could save the people he saw getting eaten on the camera is just stupid. I can only assume there is an amnesia-virus subplot that has spread from Chris to Leon, because there is no other reason for him to act so stupid after all his experience.
    Last edited by Dracarys; 06-21-2012 at 02:52 AM.
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  15. #35
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    No one said that she was infected like the majini but clear signs showed that she was on something and not herself. Chris didn't know what it was nor did he know if there was a way to save her until the opportunity presented itself later on.

    What you're insisting is that there is someone too far gone to be saved. As is the case when Jill was infected with the T-virus in 3 and "cured" before she became a zombie. But with Leon and Ashley they had the parasites removed before they were fully taken over.

    Now if Jill was infected with a plagas then removal of a parasite would be pointless at her stage. But she wasn't. That still doesn't change that Chris and Sheva had no idea what she was infected with or if there was a way to save her when they initially uncovered that she was the plague doctor working with Wesker.
    Last edited by Smiley; 06-21-2012 at 03:06 AM.

  16. #36
    #55 Oswell E. Spencer Dracarys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    No one said that she was infected like the majini but clear signs showed that she was on something and not herself. Chris didn't know what it was nor did he know if there was a way to save her until the opportunity presented itself later on.
    So with Jill there was the possibility to be saved. Unlike someone who already turned into a zombie and was munching on human flesh.
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  17. #37
    #20 Hunter Beta Kei_M's Avatar
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    This isn't the T-virus. I don't think it's completely unreasonable for Leon to hope that this virus would effect the President's mind differently. I think he knew it was hopeless to try...but he couldn't NOT try, not only is it his friend it's the PRESIDENT. Killing the President is kind of a big no-no, so I'd make sure that he was REALLY a dead&gone zombie before I blew his brains out.

    How blatant is the fathers infection? He coughs? That's never been a sign for infection (outside of plagas) and he clearly didn't have any bites, he was probably infected by that fog...same with the daughter, she was covered in blood but so was the room they found her in. It could have easily come from that room. As I said, Leon has a big heart...he wasn't going to go shoot this guys daughter in the head as soon as she died and by the time she turned the power went out and he couldn't see.
    Last edited by Kei_M; 06-21-2012 at 03:17 AM.

  18. #38
    #47 Chainsaw Majini Smiley's Avatar
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    There's no way to determine at that point whether Jill could be saved or not. Chris' only means was to reason with Jill because he couldn't face killing her. Leon reasoning with Benford was a defensive reaction because he couldn't face killing him.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    But Jill was infected. Not like the other majini, but she was infected with something. We later find out it's P30, but at the time Chris didn't know nor did he have any indication on how to save her until the device was seen. Till then getting beaten up was not a strategy. He didn't want to kill her and was prone to getting attacked.

    And shock comes in forms of reason. Stay back is a clear defense. Not because Leon wouldn't shoot him (he did) but because he didn't want to.
    Can you be "infected" with a drug?
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  20. #40
    #55 Oswell E. Spencer Dracarys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    There's no way to determine at that point whether Jill could be saved or not.
    She clearly was not a majini, ergo whatever was brainwashing her could possibly be undone. With Jill there was great possibility she could be saved. With the president there was zero possibility, no room for such hopes.
    Last edited by Dracarys; 06-21-2012 at 03:23 AM.
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