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  • The Zoe Quinn Conspiracy..

    Ya know, I'm not entirely surprised that this shit has been happening...I am surprised at how much deeper the rabbit hole seems to be getting though.

    So basically there was an Indie game developer who was banging game journalists for positive reviews on her game...but shes also kind of an internet celebrity who has leeching off donations from god knows how many people, has some connections in the industry and has been caught in the act for being a disgusting parasite.

    But apparently no video game news sites would report on this, or any of her other negative actions in the past, well all the information has been bleeding out the past week or so and really, its pretty vile and disgusting the lengths sites like Kotaku, R/gaming at Reddit, Polygon and others have gone to protect her/demonize gamers who want answers.



    Normally I don't feel the need to post this kind of shit...but theres so much wrong here exposed in the current video game journalism area that its become something moderately relevant.

    There is still information coming out, and its mostly exposing how awful video game journalism has become and which sites you might want to consider avoiding in the future, if you arent avoiding them now.
    Last edited by Wrathborne; 08-31-2014, 08:05 PM.

  • #2
    Can't dare criticise women in the gaming industry. You're sexist if you do. Doesn't matter how much a c*** they are.
    Beanovsky Durst - "They are not pervs. They are japanese."

    Comment


    • #3
      I actually really like the Kotaku review system. The rest of the content on the site I find to be very hit and miss. The Australian version exclusive posts I mostly enjoy though.
      The local poster also seems to veto a lot of shit that comes out of their head office too and curates it pretty well.
      I'm 13:00 in watching the above video, it's still a bit tricky to have an idea what's happened.
      Aside from that, I think games journalism has been a joke for a very long time.
      Look at the couple of examples in this article (ironically by Forbes, who get slammed in the above video).
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...off-the-rails/
      Personally I just don't buy games until they are marked down and the reviews are well and truly in. Saves a lot of pain in the long run.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Ugh. Sorry to call you out on this Wrath, but simply the fact you're regurgitating this shit is half the problem with this story. I'm not pro Quinn but geez, even if she's done things wrong, the level of hate and e-stalking involved is well beyond what anyone should consider normal, and the fact that inherently it seems to be mostly a male-aggression thing as well speaks volumes of the problems with the internet (and gaming, but I'll come back to that).

        First, the simple reason most gaming sites aren't reporting on it is.... well actually they are. The just haven't often reported on it in an angle that is suitable for this guy in this video, nor the sites he's demanding should, can, because they're somewhat involved. I don't quite get his demands for the companies that have already been blasted for having inbalance in their reporting to then report on something they're at some level involved in - because that's true unbalanced journalism right there. Anyway, it's funny because the first time I heard about it, was a report on the fact it's been blowing up, and linked to a bunch of information about it and then provided some sort of soapbox on what it means for the industry.

        Secondly, she slept with ONE gaming journo, not plural. She cheated on some guy with five people in total apparently according to a big sob-story blog, but that's neither here-nor-there. It's her choice to make her own mistakes and deal with them on a personal level - it's clear she has some issues if you read the guys blog - but that's for her to deal with, not the internet. The blog was put up all before this became a bigger thing, and even the guy who wrote it did it to deal with Zoe's deeper relationship issues and lies to him, and is asking for these attacks to cease... and this never had to turn into a bad Jerry Springer episode.

        The journo in question never wrote any reviews of anything she had to do with, merely two articles - one for Rock Paper Shotgun seemingly well before their relationship, and one for Kotaku which is around the time they got together. In the latter case the EOC of Kotaku has already made a statement that he feels the article in question wasn't colored by this (and considering she is only mentioned as one of two sources for some news, that's not surprising) yet some people, like the guy who's making the videos you're posting, aren't happy with the outcome (as mentioned above) so his videos are just a soap box to bitch and moan about the state of gaming journalism, or so you'd hope, but mostly he just uses is to yell at people and make bulling and/or sexist comments towards Zoe, gaming developers, and gaming journos.

        Thirdly, most of the attack seems to be focused on Zoe and not the journo in question... which also tells you much about the comments being made and their reason. The guy in the videos is a bit more even handed than most, he states it's a two way street, but that sort of statement is very much in the lower response... most of the complaints are directed only at Zoe rather than Nathan, and so anyone's excuse then about the state of gaming jornos is often not even true. Most of the stories I read also mentioned how often Zoe had pissed off communities at other places, like on 4chan and the one mentioned in the video, so it seems the attacks are also about return leverage on her. I haven't seen those personally, but I know her game on Valve was, much like something else I'll come to, attacked immediately for pushing against status-quo. This is more to this than the background of the video implies.

        The issue here comes down to cyberbully tactics... I mean, look at this guy for example who speaks only, never showing his face or confirming his identity... because he is happy to try and sit anomalously, who are also happy to slander people (out of the five guys, he names the two previously undisclosed people as two other industry people without proof and later has to retract it - if he was a newspaper with an editor and a name attached, that sort of thing would get you sued, but sitting behind an unlabeled video apparently allows you to say whatever you want without any consequences)...

        If you want to add this idea as a potential issue to the already mountain sized pile of issues with gaming journo's then, sure I'd get it, because it's not far removed from the idea of free perks, and if it was clear it got a positive review out of it here I could see why people MIGHT be up in arm but you get the feeling this has nothing to do with standing up for integrity in gaming information or sexual favors for reviews but this has a much deeper hatred towards women sleeping with multiple men behind it, internet and gamer use and privilege, female gamers pushing the status-quo, as well as the way people on the internet treat women, and that's a far bigger deal.

        The biggest crime of it all is the fact all this Springer like bullshit is actually overshadowing a far bigger, more interesting, and far more problematic situation which has unfortunate connections to a bunch of mouth breathing dbag's who believe they're standing up for the sake of 'gaming' and 'gamers.' The continued attacks on Anita Sarkeesian for doing nothing more but making videos on her opinion and the history of female gaming tropes. Which have gained absurd (and stupidly sexist) and threatening comments, the same sort of anonymous response videos, but worst of all direct threats to her, her family members, and other gaming developers who've done as little but link to her videos on twitter. I think this says a lot about the state of gamers privilege and especially that on the internet, and why things like the Quinn issue have blown up.... I'm not going to post links to her series, it's not the point to see that all she offers is a stance on the way gaming is for right or wrong, but it's worth seeing this TEDxWomen talk she gave which just outlines what happened with her Kickstarter a few years back before she'd even made the series. If this is the same thing that happened with Quinn's game launch on Valve, I wouldn't be surprised one bit.



        There are obvious problems with gaming journalism, that's obvious, it's been obvious for years that there is a certain level of incest and perks and all that stuff... and I can understand if someone had direct reasoning for a sexual relationship providing direct perks to be a major concern, but the thing is I don't think Quinn's case is that... I think she's just a girl who slept with a bunch of guys, one of them happened to be a gaming reporter, the internet blew it up, and is looking for as many ways to nitpick at her as possible.

        There are some connections to the concept of the attacks here with those on Sarkeesian, but the latter is far far more troubling to me.... that people need to make the level of threats to someone because they want to make/do make a video series sharing an educated opinion on some problems with the industry (and also provides some ideas on how to fix it) comes under attack for it is far more disgusting.

        Fuck I hate this industry sometimes.

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        • #5
          Most of it was pretty uncalled for, whether or not she was a dick.

          Can't sympathize with her nudes being posted when she has them on a fully public website, though.
          PROJECT Umbrella - The BIOHAZARD/RESIDENT EVIL Compendium

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually Rombie, its not just hatred of Zoe for the corruption, its the journalism industry as a whole. Zoe is a key player in this, but shes not the real issue. Thats the gaming news industry, they are getting hatred for this and people are starting to figure this shit out.

            Also, the reason most people don't like Anita Sarkesian isnt because "Anita Sarkeesian for doing nothing more but making videos on her opinion and the history of female gaming tropes." Its because shes a scam artist.

            Her kickstarter wanted, what 5k? to research video games as well as purchase new camera equipment for her web series.

            5k to do what she wants is about 4k too much. Her camera equipment was fine as it was, and nothing new was needed. I cant deny that games can be expensive, but lets look at her initial goal of doing 6 episodes. Who uses 5k to purchase new camera equipment and video games for a 6 episode series? Thats way too much money for a simple 6 episodes, a large chunk of which is Anita herself in front of a green screen. If she had been asking for 1k for all this, that would have been more down to earth. But 5k? No. A new higher end camera costs a little over 1k, unless you're going to purchase something as expensive as possible, which she clearly didn't because her video quality actually looked kind of worse in her 'video game vs series'.

            She was looking to get paid for her project, which in all honesty is just a vanity project. When she was being harassed by the trolls and all the white knights came to her rescue and she got 160k for her series, I cringed. Mostly at how many stupid trolls on the internet ganged up on her initially. But when I watched some of her videos, I kind of understood why she became a target.I'll explain that in a moment.

            As for all the video game research, a large chunk of the gameplay footage she used in at least 2 episodes of her series was taken from other youtubers videos, theres also the fact that what shes presenting is not evidence, as she claims. Its her opinion, which she presents as facts. Not to mention the fact that she presents a very noticeable bias against male gamers in general and isn't shy about calling them all sex starved manipulative rapists murderers.

            I take offense to that, because I'm not any of those things. I'm just a guy who likes to play games. At most I screw around with trollish players on 2fort when I play TF2. But her methodology and "matter of fact" attitude she uses as she talks down to her audience about how evil male gamers are, and how video games are all about enslaving women and empowering men. No. That says so much more about her than it does the gaming audience.

            I'm not going to defend the actions of the constant trolls of the internet who love to fuck with people, because they're always going to be there. I've been trolled for daring to animate on the internet, but as I know that the internet is full of trolls, trolls don't make up the internet as a whole.

            But I am going to say that whatever points she makes, are negated by everything that she gets wrong. This is why shes a target for trolls(more so gamer trolls now), and that's she presents bullshit as facts. I mean hell, I think it was her first video she posted she brings up Bayonetta, gripes about the character but understands that Bayonetta is a protective mother of her daughter...A friend of mine cringed hard at that vid, and told me that Bayonetta was actually guarding her younger self.

            I'm tempted to leave a few video links from people who have refuted her as they can explain their own points better than I can paraphrase them, but from your position on the situation I'm not sure you'd be all that interested in the vid links.

            Still, I'll leave this vid of Anita basically confirming what a lot of us figured out pretty fast. She isn't a gamer and doesn't like video games(despite her claiming to be one in her Kickstarter vid).

            http://[url]https://www.youtube.com/...[/url]

            Anita isn't an idiot, she knew how the internet would react to her project and played the trolls for the idiots that they are. Now shes a "gaming" celebrity who has a lucrative career and is a consultant for video game companies who want to be "pro-active".

            Women wont get respect in the industry acting like Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, or Maya Cramer. All three play the victim, and all three are toxic human beings out there to promote themselves, and nothing else.

            Smallish update:

            Sites involved in this bullshit journalism are currently...
            Silverstring Media
            Gawker
            Polygon
            Eurogamer.net
            Kotaku
            The Escapist
            Dorkly
            Gamefaqs
            NeoGAF
            r/gaming at reddit
            r/games at reddit
            Devin Faraci

            and now the Guardian is getting involved, because I guess its not a real scandal unless the tabloids pop up. unfortunately the person writing the article defending Zoe, is one of Zoes friends.
            Last edited by Wrathborne; 09-01-2014, 09:47 PM.

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            • #7
              There is a lot of evidence the recent threat that cause Anita Sarkeesian to evacuate her home was faked. Nobody seems interested in reporting that either. Is all promotion for her, so certainly a motive for it.
              Beanovsky Durst - "They are not pervs. They are japanese."

              Comment


              • #8
                Yep. Sarkeesian is a publicity farmer, its really sick that it seems that no game news sites are reporting on this, but now we know why.

                These "journalism" sites need to disappear. They're absolutely shit and the people who run them are horrible.

                Video game news is simple. Its all about video games, or developers...Instead its all one big Jerry Springer show behind the scenes.

                I love video games, they're an artform, an interactive novel, a movie, and a great experience to share with friends. These parasites have tainted something thats supposed to be fun, thats there for everyone to enjoy, and its time they were ejected from the scene and held accountable.
                Last edited by Wrathborne; 09-02-2014, 12:12 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wrathborne View Post
                  Also, the reason most people don't like Anita Sarkesian isnt because "Anita Sarkeesian for doing nothing more but making videos on her opinion and the history of female gaming tropes." Its because shes a scam artist.
                  But most of the criticism isn't about this point. From the evidence I've seen it's pretty flimsy (she has been releasing videos after all). I totally agree it's really scummy to use footage that others have made without attributing their efforts. That doesn't mean she hasn't played those games though.

                  Her kickstarter wanted, what 5k? to research video games as well as purchase new camera equipment for her web series.
                  From the Kickstarter itself (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...in-video-games) it says "Your support will go towards production costs, equipment, games and downloadable content."

                  I think there's no way you could get that under $5k. Rombie might know more about editing and post production costs. But her videos are of a certain standard which was probably worth her while to pay for, since she can't just be dismissed as an idiot in their basement and webcam and opinions.

                  ... theres also the fact that what shes presenting is not evidence, as she claims. Its her opinion, which she presents as facts.
                  She's making an argument and citing evidence to back up that argument. Pretty basic stuff. She's often got multiple examples of games which prove her point it in each video, and I'm sure it's not an exhaustive list. In a lot of cases I think she's on scraping the tip of the iceberg.

                  Not to mention the fact that she presents a very noticeable bias against male gamers in general and isn't shy about calling them all sex starved manipulative rapists murderers.
                  Gonna have to call you out on that one. Unless you're talking about her conduct outside of her videos.

                  ...she talks down to her audience about how evil male gamers are, and how video games are all about enslaving women and empowering men. No. That says so much more about her than it does the gaming audience.
                  It's much more nuanced then that. I think there's a lot of criticism of developers, who are designing games for a certain demographic. How many people are the stereotypical basement dwelling hygiene neglecting mountain dew swilling gamerz (you know the stereotype) is certainly up for debate, as is how relevant they are in the scheme of things. And the times where she does say players are juvenile or crude and can't take criticism; every hater and flamer who has a shot at her proves her point further.

                  But I am going to say that whatever points she makes, are negated by everything that she gets wrong.
                  Absolutely not true. That's just not how arguments work. It's not like scoring points in a game of tennis and all the points are moot when a 'game' is decided.

                  I'm tempted to leave a few video links from people who have refuted her as they can explain their own points better than I can paraphrase them, but from your position on the situation I'm not sure you'd be all that interested in the vid links.
                  I'm absolutely interested. I haven't seen one good refutation on any of the arguments that she makes.

                  Still, I'll leave this vid of Anita basically confirming what a lot of us figured out pretty fast. She isn't a gamer and doesn't like video games(despite her claiming to be one in her Kickstarter vid).
                  This doesn't invalidate any of the points she's made of portrayal of women in games.

                  Women wont get respect in the industry acting like Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn, or Maya Cramer. All three play the victim, and all three are toxic human beings out there to promote themselves, and nothing else.
                  Can't really comment on the other two, but Anita's got my respect. You know, doing her research, writing opinion pieces and putting her name to her work like a good journalist should. And you seriously can't tell me that she isn't a victim. I mean look at this shit http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/in...rassment-looks : for critiquing VIDEO GAMES...
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Obviously a bunch of twats who cross the line, but she uses the extremists to dismiss all valid criticism, just lumping them all together as misogynists (even women) and even plays into it for more publicity. If people have valid criticisms then you fucking well address them, not blanket ignore them and label them as haters/sexists.

                    Not gonna multiple quote but to address some points, she has been caught lying about playing games she has talked about and claimed to love, then caught trying to cover up the evidence proving it. Instead of defending this she, as I said, puts anti-women labels on people as an excuse to ignore any valid criticisms.

                    Some reason people say her kickstart was a scam is because she was already getting donations as well as monthly subscribers for her projects, she also before her kickstarter project ran a donation drive for a new computer to keep making videos. Also tweeted about playing shitloads of games as research...so if she was playing the games already, had a new computer and was receiving funding....what did she need a kickstarter for? What is she doing with $150k or so also, since it is apparently non-profit.

                    Most of the people who dislike her aren't sexist, or hate women, or hate feminism, they just dislike her since she is a liar, is hypocritical and is extremely manipulative.
                    Beanovsky Durst - "They are not pervs. They are japanese."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok Gene, this took a while to gather up but I wanted to make sure that I got all your Q's addressed. I want you to know that going through all her manipulative, biased videos, theories and opinions is not easy. I absolutely detest selfish, corrupt, greedy, self glamorizing people like Anita. I get that you support her and I don't want to insult you or your view in any way, but I want ya to know I've done some footwork here and this isn't the opinion of a "mysogonistic woman beating rape promoting patriarchy agent", as Anitas gender hating supporters would imply.

                      From the Kickstarter itself (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...in-video-games) it says "Your support will go towards production costs, equipment, games and downloadable content."

                      I think there's no way you could get that under $5k. Rombie might know more about editing and post production costs. But her videos are of a certain standard which was probably worth her while to pay for, since she can't just be dismissed as an idiot in their basement and webcam and opinions.


                      As a matter of fact, yes, there is. And thats if you do it all yourself, as she is doing(AA in film production and some experience with all this equipment and experience working on these projects.) Anita is the director, the host, the writer(co-written by her BF) and it looks like all she doesn't do is the motion graphics and music. Shes basically doing about 75% of the production herself, I dont see an editor listed so I'll assume its her as well.

                      Anita already has a green screen, lighting equipment, a good camera, and editing software. But lets look beyond this for a moment, first question that should have been raised is, why didn't she provide an itinerary for what she was going to purchase for this series?

                      If she listed "sony PSX camera, $1200, New Halogen lights, $300, External HD $400, and new Boom Mic $100" I probably wouldn't question where the money went. Not only has she not provided any list of what the money was going to be spent on, she hasnt provided any proof that she spent the money on any of this equipment either. If shes spending some money on the motion graphics or the music, why isn't that listed either?


                      She's making an argument and citing evidence to back up that argument. Pretty basic stuff. She's often got multiple examples of games which prove her point it in each video, and I'm sure it's not an exhaustive list. In a lot of cases I think she's on scraping the tip of the iceberg.

                      Her argument is fine, but shes not present an argument, shes providing an argument as a fact,instead of an opinion. Anita is a pop culture critic, not a researcher. I say that because a researcher would provide more than an opinion, they would cite studies, they would cite references, links in their videos and they would do it more. She cites the games in her video in her vid description.


                      Gonna have to call you out on that one. Unless you're talking about her conduct outside of her videos.


                      This is where the problem lies, the conduct outside her videos is the same, because what she says outside of the videos she says inside the videos. Not to mention this is a vanity project all about her and there isn't much of a difference between what she says in the videos and outside of them.


                      It's much more nuanced then that. I think there's a lot of criticism of developers, who are designing games for a certain demographic. How many people are the stereotypical basement dwelling hygiene neglecting mountain dew swilling gamerz (you know the stereotype) is certainly up for debate, as is how relevant they are in the scheme of things. And the times where she does say players are juvenile or crude and can't take criticism; every hater and flamer who has a shot at her proves her point further.

                      Well, why is it bad for game developers to have busty scantily clad women in games, but its not bad for Hollywood to have busty scantily clad women in their movies? Or for comics to do the same thing?

                      This isn't something thats just on video games, this is something about entertainment. Its marketing to the widest demographic and something thats been done for probably 50 years now. You cant fault game developers for using the same trick that the rest of of the entertainment industry uses. If she really believes that its evil to use sex to sell your product, then why does she even appear in her videos? Why cant she just narrate them instead?

                      Why is it so important that we see her for about 75% of each of these videos? Would we not understand a woman voice when we hear it?

                      Her complains about juvenile gamers who cant take criticism is invalidated automatically by her blocking all comments on her videos, " Sadly, we have been forced to close comments on YouTube due to continued harassment of this channel but please feel free to post and share this video with your own social media networks to facilitate discussions."

                      This is bullshit, pure and simple. She is putting out a topic, but refuses to hold any discussion with anyone who has issues with her opinion. Yes shes going to get thousands of hate responses, yes they're all going to be awful and disgusting, block the people who do it and actually communicate with the people who have legitimate criticisms. Instead shes saying "have a discussion somewhere else".-_-


                      Absolutely not true. That's just not how arguments work. It's not like scoring points in a game of tennis and all the points are moot when a 'game' is decided.

                      As a matter of fact yes it kind of is Gene, for every time she manages to prove that female characters in video games could be better developed, its followed up by her reasons as to why they aren't well developed. This is always followed by how game developers are there to create women for male gamers to oppress. Or how these poor defenseless women only exist to be virtually raped by masses of perverts.


                      I'm absolutely interested. I haven't seen one good refutation on any of the arguments that she makes.

                      Ok Gene, well there are literally hundreds of videos about refuting what shes says, how she comes to her conclusions, as well as calling her out for being a bullshit artist.

                      Heres Thunder00t. Crazy British scientist teacher who happens to be disgusted by the current feminist hate train and its fallacies. His series is called "feminism vs.facts". every time Anita posts a video, he posts a video about her video pointing out all the fallacies, the lies, and the agenda she has.

                      ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeX6F-Q63I
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGAv...V9vRa8cilis88A
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_O1...V9vRa8cilis88A

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRS...V9vRa8cilis88A is the video of Anita admitting not to be a gamer, and not even liking video games.

                      Thunderf00t can be a bit much, so here are normal gamers out there providing their input.

                      Here is Kitetales, a female gamer.Shes offering a counter viewpoint.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek

                      Mr.Repzion,Just a youtube gamer.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la9i2np0WTU
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCsfXkbzRI4

                      The Amazing Atheist, yeah hes a douche but heres his first video. Hes not attacking her, he was initially complaining about her disabling comments.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfkS9YS_T0k

                      His second video about her, hes less kind.Still annoyed that shes refusing to face criticism. He also points out about story structure that she doesnt seem to get, or chooses to ignore.this is a BIG part of video games, the story.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25o0EZiogw0


                      This doesn't invalidate any of the points she's made of portrayal of women in games.
                      It doesn't, but shes not there to make better female characters in video games, shes here to promote herself and her agenda. She is her own product, and she has a price. If she was honestly doing this for the sake of trying to get developers to put out better female characters in video games, she would be out there doing all of this for free and for everyone benefit. Ya know, like someone who actually cares about what they're doing and sees how much more important than monetary gain.

                      Can't really comment on the other two, but Anita's got my respect. You know, doing her research, writing opinion pieces and putting her name to her work like a good journalist should. And you seriously can't tell me that she isn't a victim. I mean look at this shit http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/in...rassment-looks : for critiquing VIDEO GAMES...[/QUOTE]

                      Yes I can Gene. She isn't a victim, She plays the victim card, and she plays it frequently. Yes shes harassed for having an unpopular opinion, yes there are thousands of trolls out there who get off on this shit. Guess what? You can block and ignore trolls instead of going to twitter and saying how mean they are while panhandling for more donations.

                      Anita just claimed she had to move because of death threats. You know what you do if you get a death Threat? You go to the police, or the FBI. You don't go to twitter.http://imgur.com/a/1JGSk/noscript

                      Here is her latest death threat.
                      http://i.imgur.com/CNVoCVL.jpg

                      And here is Polygon coming to her defense showing her tweets about reacting to this.
                      http://www.donotlink.com/framed?530661

                      But this woman does not deserve your respect Gene. Her research is flawed and never goes beyond scratching the surface, her bias is thicker and the shit she spews out in regards to gamers. Shes a hard core neo-feminist leading a wave of tumblr and twitter lunatics who outright hate men, because hatred is apparently empowering.

                      You know who needs empowerment, support, strength and help? Women in The Middle east. They're facing most of the shit that these new-feminist gripe about. So why arent they doing anything to help the people who need it? Seriously, take a moment and think about how these groups that are in no way poor, are ignoring the very people who need their help?

                      Anita is a scam artist, part of the Zoe Quinn gaming journalism scam and she doesn't deserve your respect, time, or money guys. People like Anita make a living off of people like you, who are good people that want to try to make the world a little easier for everyone, this is why I've taken so much time here to put up this post to you and Rombie.

                      Please don't just look at one of the video links and say "this is too long" or "I dont like these points of view because they contradict mine". Watch them. Watch them all. Be skeptical, I encourage this. The reason I listed these vids arent because I think the people who made them are infallible perfect creatures who cant make mistakes.

                      Its because they're right, and because they're representing everyone who recognizes that Anita is full of shit and out there promoting herself and her viewpoint for money. Anita has earned her share of hatred, not for having a different opinion, but for being a lying man hating scam artist.

                      When I was 13 years old, my mother was raped by a "friend" who was drunk. It took years, but my mother got through it, found religion, and forgave the guy. To his face. Shes moved on with her life and is a much happier person.

                      I have not. This was one of the most damaging things that ever happened to me in my childhood, and it didn't even happen to me personally! It took years to manifest into a guilt, a self loathing rage, a confusion, an anger that will not go away.

                      Its one of the reasons why I've never managed to have a real romantic relationship, and I'm 34 years old. Its still there, burning inside me like a furnace and it keeps me from getting close to anyone. And yet, with all this inside me, I can live with it. I can live with being another solitary white guy whose metaphorically dead from the neck down.

                      To this woman who you respect, and all the lunatics that support her I'm a woman hating rapist in training who gets off on torture and violence, because I'm another solitary white guy who plays games.

                      -_- This is a reality thats forming online from Anita and her cronies. Please watch the vids I linked guys.
                      Last edited by Wrathborne; 09-02-2014, 05:40 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        she's also been caught cutting important plot points from cutscenes off her videos and using as leverage to take it out of context and to fit her theme and agenda.

                        I can edit the same videos and make it seem that 'men' aren't correctly portrayed and used for abuse by just posting every cutscene of Solid/Naked Snake suffering/tortured in many ways and call it a day, just to push my 'agenda' that men are abused in the media.

                        I agree with every point Dracarys & Wrathborne! Everything that's been happening for the past few days has been filled with 'nepotism' in the gaming industry and a 'Watergate' scenario of sweeping everything under the rug and 'DON'T LOOK AT THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!'...corruption to keep them afloat through 'nepotism' and 'click-baiting' articles about what they define what's 'wrong' with the gaming community, instead of actual 'game reporting'...that's too much work, so they decide to write opinionated 'articles' that just happened to be 'glorified' blog posts!

                        Face it! They're leeches, opportunists & bloggers that hide behind the title 'Gaming Journalism' with no sense of morals and ethics.

                        The standard is so low, that I can myself a 'Journalist' if I wanted to...no need to interview anyone, or actually do any sort of research! Just write an 'opinionated' blog piece and call it a day! That's all it takes to become one nowadays!

                        Just watch MundaneMatt's & InternetAristocrat's videos on the matter, if you want to be informed...do your own research and then make your own informed opinion about the matter. The whole thing stinks, and it's been stinking for years!

                        Best way to live life is with 'skepticism'...most people in the world are shitty/selfish and out for the themselves, no matter what gender they represent! It's always good to remember that, especially with people you don't know on a personal level.
                        Last edited by Kaneco; 09-02-2014, 06:12 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Actually Rombie, its not just hatred of Zoe for the corruption, its the journalism industry as a whole. Zoe is a key player in this, but shes not the real issue. Thats the gaming news industry, they are getting hatred for this and people are starting to figure this shit out.
                          The journalism thing is a long running debate going back to corruption in gaming print media since the early 90's. This isn't anything new, no one is 'starting' to figure this out, it's just the same old stuff with new reasons to pick holes. I can go back to the GameSpot debacle with Kane and Lynch, the comments squared at 'official' magazines preferences, the Keighley Doritosgate, complaints about EGM's old advertising content, various 90's gaming magazine reviewing demos as full games, etc. etc. The whole gaming awards system is one other massive issue with the whole industry.

                          As for Quinn, regardless of what you or I think, people seem to be spending far more time talking about her than the corruption. I can just google her name and it shows me that.

                          Also, the reason most people don't like Anita Sarkesian isnt because "Anita Sarkeesian for doing nothing more but making videos on her opinion and the history of female gaming tropes." Its because shes a scam artist.
                          Uh huh. Regardless of if she's a scam artist or not, or the content of her videos, I've seen personally the comments which were left on various things she's posted prior to them either being closed down or where she stopped allowing comment and much like Quinn I've seen dozens of forum topics and other videos. I can tell you that for her opinions right or wrong, the level of response goes well beyond sane levels and certainly lots I saw with my own eyes certainly said different thing that she was a scam artist. To counter your blanket view on what people were saying, people were already making comments about her earlier videos even before the kickstarter began... so I'm not quite sure how they could say someone was a scam artist before they were supposedly scamming anyone.

                          Her kickstarter wanted, what 5k? to research video games as well as purchase new camera equipment for her web series.
                          Personally I'd say 5k for a webseries is probably a good amount, depending on what equipment you'd have to hire, locations to rent, graphics design, time spend researching, plus the kickstart fees etc. I saw your reply to Gene implied there was no breakdown, but most Kickstarters don't anyway. But most people will break down the numbers, especially in the US, because they're required to pay taxes on it. I also don't see why someone shouldn't get paid for their time, especially if they eventually turn it into a full time thing like she did. Plus anyone who gave money over the 5K chose to, it's not like she went around with guns to peoples heads. Plus even if there was a level of marketing involved, why does it bother you? If you don't like it you don't have to give any money. I didn't give any. But if I had a project I wanted to kickstart I'd be happy to get as much as I could. I question why you care.

                          I've seen the clip where she says she doesn't play games. I've seen that she uses others footage (and artwork sometimes) under a fair use claim, thats bothered a bunch of people. I never said that wasn't an issue. Some people asked for credit, some people asked for money seeing as she got paid. I know some people got credits in links under videos, no idea on money. This is a different point than attacking someone based on gender though isn't it?

                          I've watched about three or four of the videos, not the whole series, and I think she's stating opinions and backing them up with reports from various people in rights field and writers (the articles are mentioned and in the newer videos it looks like she puts up photos of the person where she can). I didn't see presentations as facts, just statements and interpretations, using other peoples statements and concepts along with hers to place thoughts on women in gaming. If you see facts, I can't quite understand why, but that's your choice. Still doesn't answer the responses I saw from some people. Nor does her place invalidate any potential for the place of opinion, much like Gene said, which she's as welcome to make as you are to have a grudge I guess.

                          In any case, regardless of all of this, labeling people as attention seekers and victims, you're still ignoring the point of peoples reactions online to any of this... what I've been seeing on forums and twitter in discussion about these people goes beyond the general concepts you're outlaying. There is a lot of sexist bile and hatred flying around.

                          I enjoyed the irony of this massive leak of nude celebs in the middle of this all happening too... go to most forums or on twitter and you'll see the same sort of things being said about them... of course given what you've been saying, you'll probably come back and tell me all the celebs are attention whores so it's only likely they instigated this for their own self promotional purposes I'm sure.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rombie View Post
                            I enjoyed the irony of this massive leak of nude celebs in the middle of this all happening too... go to most forums or on twitter and you'll see the same sort of things being said about them... of course given what you've been saying, you'll probably come back and tell me all the celebs are attention whores so it's only likely they instigated this for their own self promotional purposes I'm sure.
                            You needed to resort to an insulting implication why? That was completely uncalled for. We can disagree without these comments dude. -_-

                            I question why you care.
                            I care because if she really believed in what she was doing, she would have just done it. She already had the means, the equipment, Asking for a large sum, while already receiving donations from her other videos and her site doesn't sound kosher to me. It feels disingenuous and greedy. She could have saved up the donations she was already receiving and used them for her project.

                            She could have done this project so many ways on the cheap and still maintained decent video and audio quality. I get wanting to be paid for your work on these projects, believe me I understand this as a starving artist. I've been doing the game for almost 11 years now and not a day goes by that I don't wish I could get paid an incredible sum for my work. But I'm in the niche, I try to not be too controversial or step on too many toes(though I'm getting a bit bitter about this now) and for the most part I just keep trying.

                            But I find it incredibly repulsive that someone comes out with this type of kickstarter, a vanity project, gets threats from idiots online and is white knighted to a figure in the gaming industry who gets accolades and positive press from a corrupt bunch of self promoting arrogant wankers. She went for a controversial topic and spends her time blaming the male centered audience for why video games aren't the way she thinks they should be. She got over $150k for this. That offends me that by generalizing a topic and creating drama she was able to succeed like this. Its manipulative and so...Fox news.

                            I believe in my own silly creations. Even after 10 years and the little bit of green I've made of my works, I still keep trying. I'm in a tough spot right now and for the first time am actually asking to be paid for my work from my own small fanbase. $50 for a 10-11 minute toon. The green is going towards my heading back to school to pursue an AA in screenwriting. Thats about as far as I can manage to self promote myself outside of posting a link here and there, because I cant fool myself. I'm a starving artist trying to make a few dollars on the web in a rotten economy. Theres no noble intent, or discussion to be had there.

                            And yet someone can have a legitimate issue with gaming, but point the fingers at so much of the community, while ignoring her critics, put out an unnecessary kickstarter despite her already having the means to do her project, and laugh all the way to the bank and continue to accumulate status and wealth all because of choosing a subject that she was able to put a dramatic, finger pointing spin on. That offends me to my core, but her offending me isn't going to do anything but offend me. Its not like I'm going to start up a kickstarter and ask to be paid because I'm offended. Because the second I do that, I'm no different than she is...minus the success and money.

                            The sexist hatred and shit will always be around, this is the internet. You can't change people acting like dicks, thats how it is and thats part of humanity I'm afraid to say. This isn't new and shouldn't be branded as something so shocking that people are getting off on being dicks on someone, any more than all these game sites being as corrupt and distasteful as they are. And yet,we're all still surprised by it in some ways.

                            She did this all to start a discussion, right? So why is this something she wont discuss with the audience? Because of all the trolls making stupid threats and insulting her? Thats not an excuse. People get legitimate death threats for disagreeing with religion, or making fun of it, or not being part of someones religious sect. Thats a more legitimate concern for someones safety than creepers making twitter accounts and posting stupid, but vile, threats that are obviously trolling.

                            Why is it huge news when a pop culture critic gets trolled? Because it all goes back to kotaku and these other sites promoting an agenda to appeal to their new neo-feminist audience. Its about money in the end, thats the least surprising aspect of it.
                            Last edited by Wrathborne; 09-02-2014, 10:12 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wrathborne View Post
                              You needed to resort to an insulting implication why? That was completely uncalled for. We can disagree without these comments dude. -_-
                              I'm not. It's just pointing out the main absurdity of your response to me that it's 'just the internet' and 'people who want attention get attention' which excuses the range of responses people give, rather than actually looking at the problems that cause and allow for this... which is the point you still ignore to discuss, rather focusing instead of Anita's problems of making a web video series being a scam and the personal issues which you have with her web series. The latter I'm entirely fine with, but you're not exactly responding to the background issue other than to say it's just what it is.

                              You've tried to say it's just trolling and the way the internet works, so how is this not any different to you? Basically someone stole pictures of famous people from personal albums, and have exploited them on the internet, simply because they're famous and will often be people who use their fame for profit in otherways right? So by the logic you're telling me about Anita and Zoe and anyone else here being treated poorly because 'thats just what happens' is exactly the same. The same trolling, the same sorts of doxxing criminal activity, the same disrespect and labeling, and the same sexist outcomes.

                              So, no... it's not an insulting implication, it's just me trying to point out what I don't understand your defense of the levels of internet trolling that go well beyond the norm much like in both cases.

                              I care because if she really believed in what she was doing, she would have just done it. She already had the means, the equipment, Asking for a large sum, while already receiving donations from her other videos and her site doesn't sound kosher to me. It feels disingenuous and greedy. She could have saved up the donations she was already receiving and used them for her project.
                              Uh huh, and again, if this was you and you had your equipment and still asked for 5k would you expect us to question you for it? You'd set what you think is a suitable goal for the project, and any and every dollar above it would be a bonus.

                              The excuse 'if they really believed...' is silly. You need funding and capital to do anything self produced. I'm currently looking to change my work halfway around the world, I want to do this, I believe in getting a new and exciting job, but I sure as hell need money to live on to do it... I can believe in it all I want and want to do it, but plane tickets, accommodation, other transport, time to look for work isn't going to happen for free. Much like if I had a project I wanted to get funding I'd be setting a reasonable goal to cover the costs. I still don't see your problem here.

                              People often have means and equipment and still ask for money for Kickstarter to fund the actual product they plan to release. And again I don't see how this is a new or problematic issue for you, it doesn't effect you, the content doesn't appeal, so I wonder again why you actually care because you've just told me the same thing you did earlier. Are you jealous of the success of a kickstarter that got funding for a goal you don't like, that also you believe is disingenuous, then I can say 'thats a reason'. You might as well be honest.

                              I'm currently reminded of the scandal caused by Zach Braff kickstarter funding his recent film when clearly he should have plenty of cash assets already himself to do it, and then outside of the funding got a distribution company to bankroll further funding anyway, causing a big stink. Of course in this case more people were pissy about the latter than the former for some reason, and his funding amount was much much more than 5k. But still I never saw the same level of personal attacks in this case either... so go figure.

                              Looking at the earlier videos which I've just gone back to, there seems to be at least some level of visual improvement, implying either new lens sets or a camera. I can only take a well educated view on this, but I might be wrong. I have noticed on her site which I visited there was a picture of the studio they've done the recordings in, which is well soundproofed and they're using a red-drop for the chroma key. The way it's set out tells me unless the guys job is video/green screen work anyway, it's more likely not their space and it's borrowed from someone, because it's setup reasonably professionally, and therefor they've probably been borrowing it and wanted to pay something for it's use in the budget.

                              Again, I didn't see any blame put upon anyone... she just asks for developers to be more considerate about the design and concept of games. That her place to ask just as much as anyone. The irony of your issue with this is it seems more than anyone it's game developers who've taken this as a challenge. Just like any opinion videos, there is for and against, much as videos you've posted show - and I don't expect anything less than that. People should challenge ideas, and I never said that was wrong, but there is a difference between challenging concepts and slanderous comments which somehow you don't want to separate and just blame as being "the internet". Very big differences.

                              I suspect also Anita's lack of response stems from a) the original response she got and b) not taking time away from the video project she got funded and owes to her backers. If you were making a hit game and then had to spend all your time responding to your critics, do you think you'd have time to make more content? Your only hope for that is that at some point when she finishes the main series she makes another video responding to mistakes made, questions asked, and other thoughts she'd had on peoples responses. But no one is ever owed a response to questions on an opinion piece. I'm not, you're not, no one is... the person who makes it gets that choice to direct response.

                              In the end we'll probably just disagree over Anita's content, and that doesn't bother me one bit because of the exact point that it's about discussion... and that's cool. But the difference here is I also won't excuse peoples ignorance in the face of what they think is anonymity to think they're able to say whatever they want online, and that there is a far bigger fundamental issue here which you continue to label, twist, and ignore.

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