Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Let's discuss the RE15 Sewers ....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Long post - be warned!

    Originally posted by Enigmatism415 View Post
    Forgive me if this is blasphemous, but I'm even starting to think that the "zombie / bridge" corridor may have been merely a "proof-of-concept" or demo room and not a part of the final sewer layout ....
    Yeah. It's design IS rather weird - like the programmers got lazy or something. And then there's that bridge ... but I digress.

    Let's see - that's about the fourth or fifth place we've "used" that Time Bomb in as many years, eh? (chuckle) Hmmmm ...

    ----------

    I'm going to be leaving the Sewers discussion due to the fact that I'm starting to gather my notes and outline my planned "walkthrough" videos of the Factory stage. Before I do, though, I had a couple of ideas at work earlier tonight I'd like to share with you.

    Enig, let's assume your idea is correct and that the Spider Tunnel was NOT retained for the final 80% build - save perhaps only as a test room. Okay, we disconnect it from where I have it on my "all rooms playable" map. While we're at it, we may as well remove Keiji's Corridor, too. After all, it's substituting for the nonexistent North Canal in my "all rooms playable" map proposal for the Team. Let's put the original map outline for the North Canal back in. All right ... we're back to your original revised Sewers map:



    That leads us right back to the original "big problem" with your theory: "How do we get into the North Canal in order to exit the stage? The Time Bomb -- I don't buy it. It's possible, yes, but it just doesnt "seem" right, if you know what I'm saying. As a matter of fact, I have a new idea on entering the North Canal. It so absurdedly simple it makes me wonder why I didn't think of it before. Perhaps I was too wrapped up in that "make all available rooms possible playable" premise to do so.

    Remember our discussion of the Zombie Tunnel, with its almost identical ends? The single doors in the exact same place on each end - just mirrored on each side? Well ... what if the door you use to get into the North Canal was also a single door in the same position as those two? Assuming it's placed on the left (west) end of the North Canal the same way as the door connecting the Baby Gator Room to the Zombie Tunnel, it would almost invite ... a missing stairwell ... like the ones for the two Crate Rooms ... connecting the little "hook" hall on the final 80% build's Baby Gator Room to that presumed single door in the North Canal. Volia! Problem solved. As I said, it's so simple it missed me. Now that door at the end of the "hook" hall becomes a locked door, which you would unlock with the key you retrieve after the giant alligator fight in the East Tank. That's a simple way how you could get into the North Canal and leave the Sewers while staying true to your theory. Here's a map to illustrate:



    I also added a theoretical double-wide corridor for that one lone unplaced still we have of Elza running down a water-lined Sewers corridor from the 80% build. I wish we knew in what order Kim's friend at Capcom Japan took those pictures. It might help us place where that image should go. Oh ... and for what it's worth ... that camera angle best matches one of the backgrounds for what we've been calling the "early" Central Hub Corridor. It's not an exact match - that snapshot image's camera was lower to the ground - but still ... might this be a separate corridor after all?

    That was my first idea. Now for my second.

    What do we do with all the "green rooms," since they're technically not part of the Sewers maps anymore? Well, we can make a third level for them - Drains B3, if you will. It can be a secret level - requiring a special key to enter (like the locker key you get off of Brad's body in RE2) which doesn't have to be played in order to complete the game. At the least, it can give the player a way to tour the original "green" concepts for the Sewers. You could rig the rooms up with enemies the way we see them in the old video clips and Ys1's forced room jumps with the MZD build. You could even put a special item down here. Whatever. Here's a proposed map that you guys can build upon.



    I know I'm mixing Sewers build eras with those rooms. I was just trying to come up with a way to show the player as much as possible on the evolution of the "green" Sewers. I know the doors and textures don't quite match, either. Just trying to do the best with what we have. I'll leave any further work along this line of research up to you.

    ----------

    Well, that's it for me on the Sewers, guys. You can take it for here. I'm off to the Factory. Thanks for your help in making the RE15 Sewers playable ... at long last. I hope you can make them even better. -_^
    Last edited by RMandel; 06-15-2013, 05:08 AM.
    Do you know where I can find the final build of Resident Evil 1.5?
    Please contact me if so! re15finalbuild@gmail.com

    Comment


    • #47
      Here I've collected all the publicly available media of the "Green Sewers" into easy to view images and arranged them in logical order to give impression of the shape of the room. I'm currently working on a map for each room in attempt to try and reconstruct a map for this version of the sewers. Thought I'd post these for food for thought and post the maps separately when I'm done. Mods if I'm breaking rules with this please let me know and I'll remove the images.

      ROOM ???
      ROOM 201
      ROOM 203
      ROOM 207

      Comment


      • #48
        Posted this in another thread but it's probably best off here. Sorry for the duplicate posts.

        Originally posted by geluda View Post
        Let's just assume this is a puzzle for Sherry, I have a theory for this room. Sherry enters the room from down the ladder, makes her way down the passage and takes a right. As she ducks under and enters the small room, spiders crawl out the vent. She avoids the spiders and climbs up on to the ledge and finds a key (lets call it key "A" for example) amongst the trash. She heads back down the passage and climbs up the ledge, where she unlocks the door (door "A") next to the closed shutter. She enters the door and finds in a room with another obstacle that only Sherry can access. She makes her way up through this room to the next floor where she enters the door to the storage room back into ROOM 201. In the storage room she opens the shutter, and pushes a crate down allowing Leon/Elza to climb up to the next floor which would otherwise be impossible due to the obstacle only Sherry can access in the other room. She then climbs back up the latter and goes about her way.

        This then allows Leon/Elza to come into this area and climb up the box to where they normally wouldn't be able to access and make their way round through the rest of this sewer system. They enter through one of the two doors (my guess is the one in the middle) and take out the spiders Sherry disturbed while finding key "A". They climb up the crate and go through the door in the storage room. Beyond the door they find various corridors, complete various objectives (what they are is anyone's guess) and possibly come across the Spider Tunnel. Once the objectives are complete, they come full circle around the sewer system and unlock the other door back into the central hub ROOM 201.



        Who knows!?
        Last edited by Guest; 06-17-2013, 05:23 AM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Interesting! I've always thought spiders would be in here too, due to the sheer size of the room and the vent on the end with the platform. What you describe would certainly anticipate Sherry's side quest in the Sewers in RE2. I also like the idea of "other corridors" down here to explore. Can't prove it with what we have, of course ... but I like it. Good work, geluda.
          Do you know where I can find the final build of Resident Evil 1.5?
          Please contact me if so! re15finalbuild@gmail.com

          Comment


          • #50
            I'm making a bit of an assumption that this room has anything to do with Sherry, but the really low ceiling on some of the corridors might suggest that they are intended for her. However I get the feeling that the ceiling is in fact tall enough for Leon or Elza, by looking at some of the doors in the room and the sheer size of the walls, which are huge, there might just be enough head room for them, so perhaps this doesn't have anything to do with Sherry at all.

            But the big problem with this room is the shutter storage room. If we assume that there is a box in the storage room like there is in the Spider Tunnel, why would there even need to be a box in this room? That's the problem that kind of renders this whole "puzzle" useless, because clearly the door to the right is an access point taking you up stairs as it is in the Spider Tunnel. So if we're going to try and make some sort of logical route we have to try and explain why the shutter is there and why you would need a box to climb up to the storage room instead of just using the door. The only other thing I can think of is that the (possible) crate offers a short cut from one point to another, instead of going on a wild goose chase you can just use the crate and bypass a load of BS.

            There's too many doors in this room and not enough going on. It leads me to believe that most of them are locked and the key to one of them is found amongst the oil drums (there could always be another item amongst the oil drums, perhaps looking at the vanilla item list might reveal some clues to this (obsolete?) section of the game). It also serves as bait for the spider/s which obviously crawl out the vent and the ledge gives you a means to escape from them temporarily. It makes sense to me at least that the door below the shutter is the one that is first unlocked, although that is better assumed if Sherry is involved rather than Leon or Elza as why they'd even need a crate is beyond me if the door could just be unlocked in the first place. It's safe to assume that the shutter will be closed when you first enter the room, leaving only the door below, or some other wild goose chase to get up to that point. Obviously with the lack of other rooms to look at we can't know anything for sure, but our attention is instantly drawn to the ladder, the oil drums and the shutter, as opposed to any other door in the room which just seem to lead to more boring passages by the looks of the doors and metal grates. There's also a shelf up in the storage room which is another possible location for an item.

            In the end the problem with all this is that the PSM build isn't even capable of locking doors and items can't be used with the environment, so even if we can come to some logical idea of how this area worked, it still wouldn't have actually worked in the PSM build. It gives me the idea that this might have been in preparation of being built as opposed to being removed from the game, as the design is very thorough and well thought out, more so perhaps than any other room in the game. It was clearly designed with intention to be thought about and not just some alpha test room with a few enemies and a few objects to push around, such as the hellipad, or the armory, or the morgue, or any other room in the RPD for that matter. Part of me questions if it's even from pre era 4 at all.

            Comment


            • #51
              There is always the possibility that the "Alpha Sewer" is analogous to the Sewage Disposal in RE2, in that it supplements rather than conflicts with the "Final Sewer". Consider that the manholes in the RPD do not line up with the ladders of the L Corridor at all; the outdoor alley manhole is even a story above the Service Garage manhole. Thus, the "green areas" might serve as the side-character preamble to the main "grey areas".

              Comment


              • #52
                Indeed, that's what I've always thought. You know, the more I think about this the more it's making sense. Here are some clues to consider given by the scenario.







                This is interesting, because here we have two characters confirming Sherry's location in both scenarios. Leon finds Sherry in the basement garage, and Elza informs John that she saw her in the basement garage as well. Sherry exits down this ladder shaft, so if we are to assume Sherry has a side role in the green sewers, is it safe to assume that the entrance to the green sewers is in Garage B? We know that Leon, Marvin and Ada make their way into the sewers via Garage B, so does that mean the three of them make their way down into the green sewers as well? Perhaps in pursuit of Sherry?





                Here we can see that the three of them exit into the Drains down this ladder shaft, so if we assume they came through the green sewers in pursuit of Sherry, then this must be the exit from the green sewers.







                Interestingly, in Elza's scenario, her and John exit down into the sewers through the Outdoor A manhole, which coincidentally sits sketchily above the next ladder shaft along in the L Tunnel, down in the South-West region of the RPD. Elza mentions to John that she saw Sherry "in" the Garage B, John then informs Elza that they can use the sewer "tunnels" (trusting the translation here) in order to access the Garage B.

                Perhaps here we have two separate definitions of sewers, the sewer Drains, and the sewer Tunnels. Where Leon, Marvin and Ada use the Garage B manhole and make their way through the sewer Tunnels down into the sewer Drains, perhaps Elza and John make their way down into the sewer Drains and up into the sewer Tunnels in order to reach the Garage B to find Sherry before they take off to the Factory. This would explain why the door is locked for Elza in Garage B, and why the large steel container has already moved in Elza's scenario, because by this time Leon's crew have already moved the container by the time Elza makes her way up into the Garage B.



                Going back in the scenario a little. In the beginning Leon starts on the roof and makes his way down through the RPD with no partner to help him shift the crates on the helipad. On the flip side Elza starts on the first floor and makes her way up through the RPD with no partner to help her shift the steel container in the basement garage. Since the scenarios are complete opposites of each other, if we take Spider Tunnel into account, we can work out that Elza should access the Spider Tunnel from one end, and Leon should access it from the other. Assuming (and a big assuming here) it's a corridor that links one part of the sewer Tunnels to the other A to B, if we take the Hyper Playstation Re-Mix Vol.3 video as a representation of actual scenario events and not just room jumping, then we know which end is which!

                Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
                Last edited by Guest; 06-17-2013, 07:08 PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Elza with the Glock in that video???

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mikhail View Post
                    Elza with the Glock in that video???
                    Is that a peculiarity?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      It seems that Elza has her rendezvous with Sherry at the foot of the Service Garage ladder:

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	BH2_037cp.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	403114

                      "...My, that's a big clock!"

                      This seems to suggest that the entire green sewer network (or at least the majority of it) lies beneath the outdoor alley manhole (which is further supported by the extra story separating this manhole from that of the Service Garage). Of course, this is all assuming that the "two sewer eras" theory is incorrect.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Now that's EXACTLY the kind of thinking we need on this topic. Good spadework, guys.
                        Do you know where I can find the final build of Resident Evil 1.5?
                        Please contact me if so! re15finalbuild@gmail.com

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Enigmatism415 View Post
                          It seems that Elza has her rendezvous with Sherry at the foot of the Service Garage ladder:

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]8911[/ATTACH]

                          "...My, that's a big clock!"

                          This seems to suggest that the entire green sewer network (or at least the majority of it) lies beneath the outdoor alley manhole (which is further supported by the extra story separating this manhole from that of the Service Garage). Of course, this is all assuming that the "two sewer eras" theory is incorrect.
                          That's a good point, I had looked at that image but didn't know how to interpret the scene. We know Elza actually gets in to the Garage B because we have Inflames images of that also, but why and what she'd do there if the door was locked is anyone's guess, going all that way for one room only to find nothing, not even Sherry, would be a huge waste of time.

                          Well, there's some things we might have to consider. The first, is the position of manholes in relation to ladder shafts, do we assume that the map of the RPD is relative to the map of the Drains? The second is, how do we assume basement levels? Can Drains B2 (as its called on the map) be on the same level as RPD B2?

                          Either way, the one thing that stands out to me is that the Garage B manhole is situated in the North-East region of the RPD, where as the L Tunnel is situated in the South by South-West region of the RPD. So if we consider manhole position is relative to ladder shaft position we still need extra rooms to connect Garage B to L Tunnel.
                          Last edited by Guest; 06-18-2013, 11:55 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I like that ''big clock'' LOL - They clearly meant ''big locket / big pendant''

                            Sewers mega confuses me - plus the fact several rooms went through several stages and were re-worked - we won't know for sure until we play the released 1.5 - sure it may not be 100% as Capcom intended, but I'm sure it'll be great eitherway
                            "I never thought any of this stuff my brother taught me would work!"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I think it's pretty certain at this point that both sewers are intended for final, unless Capcom were really dumb with dimensions it's impossible for both ladder shafts to fit together without adding another passage way and another ladder shaft in the middle.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by RaccoonSurvivor View Post
                                I like that ''big clock'' LOL - They clearly meant ''big locket / big pendant''
                                I provided a direct translation.

                                Originally posted by geluda View Post
                                why and what she'd do there if the door was locked is anyone's guess, going all that way for one room only to find nothing, not even Sherry, would be a huge waste of time.
                                The Service Garage door would have already been opened by the time Elza found her way to the L Corridor.

                                Originally posted by geluda View Post
                                do we assume that the map of the RPD is relative to the map of the Drains? The second is, how do we assume basement levels? Can Drains B2 (as its called on the map) be on the same level as RPD B2?
                                Seeing as how the Drains B1 map is curiously absent in any form, not to mention the difference in levels between the two manholes, I am tempted to believe that the answer is yes; Drains B2 is at grade with RPD B2. Some would disagree with me though, and they may very well be right, but the layouts of RPD B2 and Drains B2 do not conflict when one is superimposed onto the other (anchored by a fixed Service Garage manhole - L Corridor east ladder connection, and remaining faithful to the orientations of the maps).

                                Originally posted by geluda View Post
                                the one thing that stands out to me is that the Garage B manhole is situated in the North-East region of the RPD, where as the L Tunnel is situated in the South by South-West region of the RPD. So if we consider manhole position is relative to ladder shaft position we still need extra rooms to connect Garage B to L Tunnel.
                                What makes you so sure of that? I think that a stronger case can be made in favour of the Service Garage manhole sitting directly above its corresponding L Corridor ladder, while the outdoor alley manhole is separated from its corresponding L Corridor ladder by the entire green sewer labyrinth. In this arrangement, the Factory would be located appropriately far away from the RPD, since the bulk of Drains B2 would be positioned north of the precinct. Alternatively, the green sewer would be two stories deep, and must be navigated regardless of which manhole is entered (in this case, Drains B2 would be situated directly beneath RPD B2).

                                Note that both the green sewer and main sewer layouts are technically two stories each, but I consider them single stories because the map treats the upper level as a mezzanine rather than a discrete floor.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X