Dead Space, truly epic

[Alexia_Ashford]

Not to derail this thread too much, but Eternal Darkness was an excellent game. I know a lot of people scoffed when Nintendo revealed its vitality sensor, but the first thing I thought of when I saw it was the possibilities for a survival horror game ala Eternal Darkness.

The biggest issue with ED's insanity effects was that you almost always knew when they were coming thanks to the insanity meter. The vitality sensor would theoretically remove the need for such a meter and allow for the insanity effects to occur based on the player's heart rate or general physical disposition at that particular moment in time. That would, at the very least, make the insanity effects seem more random and unexpected.

Of course, for someone like me whose heart rate almost never increases while playing a video game, because even when I get really into a game, I still remain fairly calm, it might not be as viable a solution. And since survival horror games never actually scare me, I (and other gamers like me) could conceivably go through the entire game without experiencing a single insanity effect, so it isn't a perfect solution by any means, but it would certainly be interesting.

Hm, I don't really think it was predictable. I mean sure, the game definitely changed when you had a low level of sanity, but still, they were unpredictable. Like, you could have a low sanity level then suddenly you open a door and your head falls off. It was random occurrences but you knew these things were likely to happen. Still makes you jump though. An ED sequel would be fantastic with the Wii.

Then you get Dead Space. The same environments. The same enemies. Just dull. Really, really dull.

[missvalentine]

Then you get Dead Space. The same environments. The same enemies. Just dull. Really, really dull.

I liked the environments. I was sad when we left the Ishimura. The environments were excellent and very well done. I saw enough difference between them to be satisfied and I liked the style and feeling it gave off. It was very realistic.

[Darkmoon]

Hm, I don't really think it was predictable. I mean sure, the game definitely changed when you had a low level of sanity, but still, they were unpredictable. Like, you could have a low sanity level then suddenly you open a door and your head falls off. It was random occurrences but you knew these things were likely to happen. Still makes you jump though. An ED sequel would be fantastic with the Wii.

Then you get Dead Space. The same environments. The same enemies. Just dull. Really, really dull.

As I recall there were, what, four or five different enemies in Eternal Darkness? And you revisted the same areas in different time periods quite a lot? Eheh.

I love Eternal Darkness, but it had it's flaws. A lot of the insanity scenes were prepredicted unless it was related to the sanity meter, and then that gave the game away. The enemies you thought were pretty meagre and easy to dispatch and not at all scary. The game itself did well due to the insanity meter, but that only worked first time you played, and the non random insanity moments like the bathtub.

I still don't understand the criticism of Dead Space's levels. I never have any trouble working out which bit of the ship I'm in. Yes, there all similar...but it's a sixty uear old mining ship. They're gonna standardize as much as possible. Hell, it's no worse than a boat of some kind today. If every area was completely different it wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't feel like a real ship, and the Ishimura does.

[Carnivol]

I still don't understand the criticism of Dead Space's levels. I never have any trouble working out which bit of the ship I'm in. Yes, there all similar...but it's a sixty uear old mining ship. They're gonna standardize as much as possible. Hell, it's no worse than a boat of some kind today. If every area was completely different it wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't feel like a real ship, and the Ishimura does.

It's just the same thing people moaned about in F.E.A.R.. People rave about the realistic atmosphere and settings in all sorts of stuff, but the moment you actually apply a real atmosphere and realistic design to something... they'll start crying about how terrible it is. Some people probably just doesn't know what realistic means

Take Prince of Persia (2008); people praised it for its art direction... but stop for a second in any of the fertile grounds and tell me what the heck you're looking at. They feed you some story about what they're supposed to be, but no matter how you twist and turn it... nope, it's just a bunch of random crap that is cleverly positioned for the sole purpose of having the Prince crawl around on it like a spider monkey.

Anyway, the Ishimura does feel like a real vessel. And if you don't see differences between the various sections of it, then it's time to pop in those lenses (or put on the glasses) and have a second look

[Archelon]

Realism in games isn't interesting if it prevents the game from being fun, though. The Ishimura may have been "realistic," but that also means that it was very dull and repetitive in its design. Sure, it may be more "realistic," but I'd personally much rather have an outlandish design for an environment that complements the gameplay, like the fertile grounds in PoP you mentioned, even if it doesn't make sense from a "realistic" perspective, than an environment that is "realistic" but ultimately amounts to little more than a bunch of narrow corridors with monster closets.

A perfect example of this is the RPD in RE2, yet I've never heard anyone complain about the way it is designed. It's not realistic in the slightest (and the excuse that it used to be an art museum doesn't work here, because no one would design an art museum like that, either), because it was designed with the gameplay in mind. Everything in a game, from the environments to even the story, should be done in service to the gameplay, not the other way around.

But hey, different strokes for different folks.

[Darkmoon]

I like the realism. The fact that Ishimura feels like it could be a real ship with a real function helps to immerse me in the world of Dead Space. It is possible to make things too realistic, it's true, but I felt it was well done in this. A nice solid dollop of realism can help with suspension of belief in other areas of a game, I find.

You're right about the RPD. It's one of the reasons I'm so interested in 1.5. That version seemed much more realistic...and one of the complaints about 1.5 I seem to recall was the RPD was too samey and dull. I guess they took things way out the other end and gave the level designers free LSD.

[Jill's Boob]

A perfect example of this is the RPD in RE2, yet I've never heard anyone complain about the way it is designed. It's not realistic in the slightest (and the excuse that it used to be an art museum doesn't work here, because no one would design an art museum like that, either), because it was designed with the gameplay in mind.

Not true - I have been a vocal opponent of the ridiculous design of the RPD. If it weren't for the poor choice in having the RPD mimic the Arklay mansion, I would easily say that RE2 is one of the best games ever. But the simple fact that you need to find a spade key, a heart key, etc. - just to progress through the station, is really ridiculous. It is neither realistic, nor clever. It certainly takes the player (or at least me) out of the moment. I find it hard to suspend belief for something so utterly unrealisitc. I know it is an homage to the first game, and a gameplay mechanic, but I find realism in a game to be more important than somrthing silly like searching for a suit-themed key to open a door to another part of a ravaged building. And if all those keys were necessary...and the doors were still locked...just how did the zombies, lickers, et al get to those spaces while Leon & Claire cannot?

Everything in a game, from the environments to even the story, should be done in service to the gameplay, not the other way around.

I agree to an extent, but whereas being unable to swim is acceptable in old games like Castlevania, in newer, more technologically advanced games such a mechanic would be just wrong.

[Member_of_STARS]

Cant have that with RE though (classical RE-s that is), its a survival horror puzzle game, so not having the suit-keys or forced exploration and backtracking if you may, wouldnt work out that well. The game was also made in a time where realism was an option not supported by hardware and wasnt really being chased all that much.

Personally, Im a vocal proponent of sacrificing realism for gameplay if theres no choice, but Im also giving my props to games which manage to create realistic environments, realistic situation, all while being bloody fun. Mass Effect springs up and the chaotic battles in COD4 are also hailed as giving the player the realistic kind of tention. Which is why I always prefer the NORG (natural order of realistic gameplay) to realism.

Its not realism per-se that is great, level design and gameplay mechanics have to make sense to create immersion. Both Ishimura and various levels in FEAR gave reason and sense to the locations.

But out of all games Ive played, the best level design that is both realistic and at the same time wicked fun, SWAT4 is untouchable. Theres not a game that comes close to that games level design. It has the most realistic maps, everything is as it should be in real life, and at the same time they are awesome fun to play. I wish more games could do that.

[Jill's Boob]

Yeah, I see what you and Archelon are saying.

I know that it is impossible to punch a man's head and make it explode in a fountain of blood and brain chunks (like I do with Chris's fisticuffs in RE5), so I can appreciate some unrealistic things...I guess I should have said that I prefer for my games to have as much realism as possible. I know that sometimes game design requires a lot of things that defy physics/nature/what-have-you, but I just find myself sometimes cringing at things that completely take me out of a gaming experience.

I love RE2, but even years ago, upon first playthrough, I couldn't stomach the return of "find-a-key-to-open-this-specific-set-of-doors." It was tolerable in the first RE, since I hadn't seen anything like it before, but by RE2 it just seemed GREATLY out of place since I was in a police station.

*I forget the excuse...wasn't it explained that George Trevor designed the police station as well?

/can't wait to get RE2 on PSN so I can play through it again...it's been far too long

As far as Dead Space is concerned, I appreciate the realism of the USG Ishimura, even though it can be a little drab sometimes. But the ship felt like a real space vessel, including toilets overflowing with dung. Although I only remember finding showers next to the basketball court...

[Ghostface]

Dead space, a game that isn't dull. The enemies in a way aren't the same because you get them in different forms like say you dismember their legs you get a crawling necromorph coming after you or you piss them off by sending their head on a joy ride and they come at ya all crazy like. The environments have to be RELATED but with different textures and places because it's a mining ship not "OMG WHERE ARE WE IM LOST I THOUGHT WE'RE ON THE ISHMURA EVERY FRIGGIN ROOM IS DIFFERENT , LIKE HERE i THOUGHT THIS WAS THE MINING DECK BUT ITS A FRIGGIN LANUDRY MAT". Oh stay on topic this isn't Resident Evil this is Dead Space.

[DarkMemories]

What game did you play? Dead Space is one of the dullest games to ever ***** a console.

Even Pong can get more exciting.

Dead Space wasn't just boring because of the samey environments; it was generally unscary, had very little innovation (as in, none), and the story wasn't much of one.

It's a mediocre game only worth a 7/10 at best and that's stretching it.

[nemesiswontdie]

yes i agree. Dead Space is VERY dull and boring yet I no a certain someone who thinks its "the best game this gen"

[missvalentine]

yes i agree. Dead Space is VERY dull and boring yet I no a certain someone who thinks its "the best game this gen"

Well it's not up against a lot Seb.

I mean COD4 is the only other truly great game out.

I think Dead Space was quite possibly the greatest game this gen so far. I mean, what other game other than COD4 is possibly better than it?

RE5? MGS4? Uncharted? Resistance? Halo? Gears of War? World at War? There good but no where near as great as Dead Space.

[Darkmoon]

Dead Space wasn't just boring because of the samey environments; it was generally unscary, had very little innovation (as in, none), and the story wasn't much of one.

I'd disagree, especially with the little innovation (although a lot of the game was based off System Shock, of course) it did enough different from most action games to be interesting. The idea that shooting an enemy in the head is next to pointless and depending on how you injure a monster will affect how it will adapt seems pretty unique to me. It's not the most innovative title to ***** a system by a long shot, of course, but to say there's no innovation at all seems a bit harsh.

The story is pretty good, for my money. There's plenty of it, it mostly fits together into one seemless whole barring a couple of screw ups and it's pretty good for sci-fi horror. It has all the standard stuff...a mystsery, goverment conspiracies, cult conspiracies, murders, a search for a loved one...and of course a few plot points to build the story on. Again, it's not exceptional. It's a bit by the numbers without any real shocks, but that's true of just about every computer game story out there, ever. For a single game it has a good, deep mythos and lots of fun little trivia pieces, little bits of information and such.

And as for horror...I found it scary. It hits all the right point for me. Former humans corrupted into something monsterous, a deep and inhuman intelligence, savage combat, and at least to start with a desperate search for more resources. It has nasty little surprises like when you reach the medical area and find out just what a certain kind of Necromorph has taken for a host. There are a lot of ambushes and surprise attacks...a game where you go around destroying the already dead to make sure they can't attack you is doing something right.

[DarkMemories]

Well it's not up against a lot Seb.

I mean COD4 is the only other truly great game out.

I think Dead Space was quite possibly the greatest game this gen so far. I mean, what other game other than COD4 is possibly better than it?

RE5? MGS4? Uncharted? Resistance? Halo? Gears of War? World at War? There good but no where near as great as Dead Space.

Sane individuals disagree.

But seriously, you honestly think Dead Space is better than any of those games? I can see Halo, because it's kind of bland at this point, and World at War, because it's still the same old WW2 setting.

Games in General this Gen that are better than Dead Space (and by a large sum in most cases):

Left 4 Dead
Gears 1 and 2
RE5 (I don't think it's that great, but it's certainly more entertaining than Dead Space)
RE:UC (You know a game's bad when a rail-shooter is more fun)
Mass Effect
Bioshock
Dead Rising
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime 3
Even the rather meh Turok game was better than Dead Space.

That's not even close to being all of them either.

Better Horror Games:

Condemned 1 and 2
Silent Hill: Homecoming