Final Fantasy XIII

[Rombie]

^ You're telling me... geez, thats a confusing analogy which somewhat explains bits of FF13.

The disagreements here in the topic are exemplifying what I said earlier about what people expect of games with the title 'Final Fantasy' as being a problem.

And why I thought it wasn't very wise of some gaming outlets to criticize both other reviewers and gamers for having expectations of usual RPG conventions you expect of the name (and then being slightly confused/annoyed/saddened that the game was different from what most of the other titles in the series brought).

It's like making Madden branded game and then making people play Soccer or Rugby in it instead of American Football. Then saying it's fine because they all use a ball in play, but of course that doesn't matter that the rules a different - you'll just make your through it.

[kiedistidus]

http://360.kombo.com/article.php?artid=18529 I WANT TO SLAP TORIYAMA!!!!


oh and I managed to track down igns reviewer of 13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rZyDTMtrA&feature=related

[Carnivol]

Ahahah. You would think he'd take it as a clue that no Final Fantasy game (probably including spin-offs, even) has ever scored as low in certain publications as FFXIII has... But, nope... all's wrong with the US/EU's expectations for an RPG, apparently. (Adding that up with that stuff some time back where they were drawing parallels between XIII to VII ... I think we can at least safely say this man does not really have that much of a clue - not even when it comes to the company's own games.)


To be honest, I was under the impression that "traditional" JRPGs were bigger (worldwide) than WRPGs (in general)...

[Zombie Fred]

The formula in Final Fantasy been played around with since around (and after) the 7th chapter, even if these were minor difference to what “elements” matter in the previous titles. Final Fantasy 7 was the first step of change in the series with the first step from the classic 2D sprite form going into a 3D rendered world. The core design may follow the roots of the old, but this was the beginning of future titles heading into experimentation to how game play would soon alter. And like always with each Final Fantasy title, there’s a given audience that loved the series for that specific universe (or game-mechanics) and 13 follows that same exception. Square (Enix) will definitely change the shift on what future titles will follow, in terms of mechanics and the Western influence in the RPG genre, after the Fabula Nova Crystallis is finished and 14 changing based upon feedback. I actually think some of the character designs in 13 are excellent but this boils down to what has been formerly said about each game title having a different form of opinion to many fans of the series. I wish towns and more of the world was open up (pre chapter 11) to go with previous elements, but the game still does a great job to living up as a Final Fantasy title.

[Carnivol]

^ Not sure I'm following you. The change from FFVI (2D) to FFVII (3D) is about as much of a gameplay change as the shift from 52(?) to 256 colors was between FFV and FFVI. It's a visual change, sure, but it didn't affect the gameplay in any way (other than introducing the soon to become overly annoying, lengthy and flashy animations for even the simplest tasks in the world. Just a matter of time before getting out of the bed in the morning puts the 4th of July and New Year's Eve, combined, to shame.)

As for the "experimentation" in FFVII's presentational change? It was all just natural progress. Everyone was going in that direction (@2D->3D change). But nothing about their gameplay turned "3D." SquareSoft was even late to the party for the most part (and pre-rendered stuff was something they'd even done in several other SquareSoft-labeled non-FF titles pre-FFVII). Heck, even FFVII's actual "twist" to the gameplay, the materia system, was just an alternate take on VI's magicite system (which, again, VIII's Junction kinda spun off from, while IX' ability system wasn't exactly much more than a tiny mix of the recent stuff and a leap back to days of yonder) and VI's system was just standard job classes w/room for magic/summoning expansion via magicite.

While their battle systems changed in various degrees, everything else remained the same.

Between the Snes and current gen, here are the 3 games with "major" changes and what those changes were;
Spoiler:

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FFX
-Removal of the ATB
-Removal of explorable world map
-Sphere grid

FFXI
-Online (MMO)
-Single character control (but can party and combine efforts with other players and certain NPCs)
-Overworld battlefields (+return of ATB variation)

FFXII
-Gambits... maybe?
-... pointer arrows...? (<-that's me grasping at straws)
-... seriously... can't really think of anything...

[BadWolfX]

http://360.kombo.com/article.php?artid=18529 I WANT TO SLAP TORIYAMA!!!![/url]

I don't think he's wrong exactly. The main difference that you can see between the two types of RPG is exactly what he described.

Take Persona 4, for example, which spends three hours introducing game elements, story and plot before it allows you to do what you want to do, and that is limited in itself.

Then take Oblivion, which gives you a tutorial that is perhaps around thirty minutes long and then puts you in this massively big world.

You could probably do that comparison with a lot of WRPG/JRPGs. But it does all boil down to a matter of taste (and not in a "I have better taste than you do" way.) and this sort of thing happens with pretty much every Final Fantasy.

I think from a story perspective it certainly did make sense to remove the traditional towns. The protagonists are all fugitives and every single person wants them dead and is terrified of them. An example of this can be seen in-game in Chapter 7.

I don't really see what is wrong with shaking up some of the traditional elements - and really, the only thing they've changed from other FF games is the removal of traditional towns (and it does make sense). In fact, the removal of towns probably made the linearity stand out that some of the other games in the series. I wouldn't be surprised if these more traditional elements were added back into the series with Agito XIII and Versus XIII considering the reaction from the press and the fanbase.

I do think saying that the game is Final Fantasy in name only is a bit of an over-reaction. It has pleased a lot of people and the removal of traditional elements doesn't exactly stop it being a Final Fantasy game. It just means that you personally enjoy it less.

In other news, XIII is the fastest selling game of the franchise to date, it seems.

[Zombie Fred]

In terms of presentation, Square had broadened their presentation and use of hardware with each title since FF7. The team always tried different things in this area (I have to say my love goes to Final Fantasy 9 for looking as the older titles charm for inspiration to bringing it out into 3D) and FF13 continues that. You could summarise how little has changed for game play overall (outside their combat and class systems) but I always get the feeling there was to it (how the game feel and played compared to others), thanks to the direction the specific title was based upon. I actually think Final Fantasy 11 and 12 was the biggest changes to some of the older elements (how the world was presented, combat and class system, etc). FF13 feels more like an older title high-resed with a few tweaks they tried doing.

[Canas Renvall]

FFXII's big change was free-roaming in a battle. And being the first FF that I couldn't bring myself to finish because it was just so bad... but that's neither here nor there.

FFXIII is a mix of a lot of those things.
Spoiler:

show spoiler

-Sphere grid-esque crystarium
-Return of ATB variation
-No more random battles
-Loss of explorable world map (but as stated, it does open up later on)

FFX didn't have a world map like you said, and it was the last great one until XIII. X-2 didn't have a world map either. But I know you guys don't like it like I do, so I guess we don't need to count it. But yeah, FFX is highly regarded and there was no world map. Hell, no ATB system that everyone fawned over either. Voice acting was added. Those three things were a real change. FFXIII still follows those three things, and yet it's being berated while X is given the free pass. I find XIII's reimplimentation of ATB to be good to begin with, but (battle system spoilers)
Spoiler:

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the Paradigm system works magnificently. That, on top of leveling your weapons instead of you, working the Crystarium to your best interests, etc etc. makes it one of the deepest battle systems in the series.

Not to mention the story progression so far is fantastic. And Masashi Hamauzu did incredibly well with the music. I'm pleasantly surprised, and hope this guy stays with the series since Nobuo's gone.

[JcFFx]

I'm almost 37 hours in and am on Chapter 11.

wtf is up with the Gil-collection in this game?

[Canas Renvall]

^ You're not supposed to get Gil from battles, it's supposed to be harder to come across. Otherwise people could just spam Potions if they needed to. I like it, it keeps the game strategic.

[BadWolfX]

That said, there are a bunch of items you can sell for a ridiculous amount of gil.

But yeah, early on there is a severe lack of the stuff.

[JcFFx]

^ You're not supposed to get Gil from battles, it's supposed to be harder to come across. Otherwise people could just spam Potions if they needed to. I like it, it keeps the game strategic.

Who actually spams potions? They heal like, 300 *with* doctor's code and medic boost and by the time you hit the 1500 hp mark they're borderline uselss. I can spam cura/curaja if I needed to and it's way more effective than a potion.

"Common" item drops are rare enough as it is. It kinda ruins the point of the weapon upgrade system when you barely have the means to upgrade your weapons.

I spent an hour grinding in that field against cactuars and a king-behemoth-fighting-that-giant-dog-thing. Takes me about 3 minutes to kill the former and a minute to kill the latter.

Did I get a ton of CP? Sure. I still didn't get one cactuar doll, and only collected enough item drops to boost half a weapon level.

Ugh. I should've just farmed on that airship like everyone else...

[BadWolfX]

I find it easier to buy the weapon boosting stuff from the Shops. The drops you get are decent but you'll be buying most of the materials.

[JcFFx]

Yes, but after the airship farming for cash is ridiculous (which was kinda my point... =/)

[Sephiroth]

Im onto chapter 11 and that took me 27 hours and gess whatSpoiler:

show spoiler

WE have a massive area going in any were just full of monsters just like what most of this game should of had not have a straight down a single line. This area you move any were and the the landscape is amazeing im not kidding you whould think your heart has stop at times it so amazeing.