Downpour Spoiler Thread

[Canas Renvall]

^ I would say that the exception is Downpour. The combat is nothing to phone home about, like the older games, but they don't force any horror. Like the originals, it comes pretty naturally.

[Pikminister]

Too bad the fans are not biting. Maybe the fanbase is too old and moved on to something else. Like Facebook.

The sales numbers are depressing.

[News Bot]

Too bad the fans are not biting. Maybe the fanbase is too old and moved on to something else. Like Facebook.

The sales numbers are depressing.

Their own fault for killing the series.

[DarkMemories]

It really is the fan base that's killing Silent Hill, actually. Their refusal to accept anything post-SH4 is staggeringly stupid, especially combined with the undeserved reverence of a fictional Team Silent. There's also Konami's piss-poor marketing, but the excuse only goes so far.

That said, Silent Hill has been and probably will always be a niche series. It's never been RE's level on a sales front, so what Konami expects I have no idea, but they seem pretty lenient considering that new SH games continue to be made despite a decline.

[Smiley]

That's part of the reason. Another reason is the incompetence of specific people at Konami. All the constant delays, the bugs and recently framerate issues on new and classic games.

Downpour is their best non Team Silent attempt and it isn't completely flawless with the glitches and dips in frame rate that requires a patch to be worked on months after its release.

I'm not someone who hates on new Silent Hill games because the people behind the older titles are no longer involved. But that being said this year hasn't been the Silent Hill strong point they were hoping for. They never anticipated huge sales, but that's no excuse for releasing what's being argued as unfinished products. Especially after all the delays they've had. Now it's going to cost Book of Memories.

[News Bot]

It really is the fan base that's killing Silent Hill, actually. Their refusal to accept anything post-SH4 is staggeringly stupid, especially combined with the undeserved reverence of a fictional Team Silent. There's also Konami's piss-poor marketing, but the excuse only goes so far.

That said, Silent Hill has been and probably will always be a niche series. It's never been RE's level on a sales front, so what Konami expects I have no idea, but they seem pretty lenient considering that new SH games continue to be made despite a decline.

People probably don't accept anything post-SH4 because everything post-SH4 happens to suck. Downpour is probably the exception, but I'm not bothered enough to check. Origins and Homecoming were developed by a team trying to imitate a style that they don't quite fully understand while trying to bring the series into a more action-orientated path. I hate on them because they, in my view, are bad Silent Hill games. They feel more like knock-offs than titles in the franchise.

[DarkMemories]

Origins and Homecoming were developed by two different studios - Climax and Double Helix - and neither game is particularly more action-oriented than any of the other games in the series. In fact, arguably the most action-packed game in the series is SH3, since it easily has the greatest number of enemy encounters and the largest weapon variety. It's also probably the laziest game in the series, outright reusing an entire area from the previous game with no true visual upgrades.

[News Bot]

Origins and Homecoming were developed by two different studios - Climax and Double Helix - and neither game is particularly more action-oriented than any of the other games in the series. In fact, arguably the most action-packed game in the series is SH3, since it easily has the greatest number of enemy encounters and the largest weapon variety. It's also probably the laziest game in the series, outright reusing an entire area from the previous game with no true visual upgrades.

I know they were developed by different studios. And both produced shit results. What's wrong with reusing an area when the first three games are set in a single town? SH3 more than made up for it with every other section in the game. If it was lazy, they would've re-used most of SH2. Not a single area. The graphics can't really get much better between SH2 and SH3. Nitpicking problems from the older games in order to justify the mediocre nature of the Western titles is pretty pointless.

[Smiley]

Homecoming was more action oriented. It also took too much from the "torture gore" of the horror genre that you'd see in such films like Hostel. Steps were made to scale the game play back some, but the combat is a lot more grounded which wasn't well received so the later games abandoned it.

Shattered Memories ditched the combat altogether. I still find that Wii game to be really fun and one of the few horror games on the wii that isn't driven by FPS game play. The main complaints you'll see from fans on that game is the length and predictability of how the game is paced. Not having to fear running from monsters when you venture outside the otherworld for instance.

Downpour addresses all these problems. The combat returns, but is not as smooth as Homecomings. The chase sequences are back from Shattered Memories, but other monsters can still pop up even when you're not in the otherworld. The transition to the otherworld itself is randomized outside of the just the plot. So if you take the time to explore aspects of Silent Hill and look at other side quests you'll find plenty to do and a lot more uncertainty about when you'll need to run and go back inside as you start to hear thunder.

[DarkMemories]

I know they were developed by different studios. And both produced shit results. What's wrong with reusing an area when the first three games are set in a single town? SH3 more than made up for it with every other section in the game. If it was lazy, they would've re-used most of SH2. Not a single area. The graphics can't really get much better between SH2 and SH3. Nitpicking problems from the older games in order to justify the mediocre nature of the Western titles is pretty pointless.

The way you'd phrased it I thought you might have been under the impression that they were developed by the same team. Reusing areas is lazy because it's copy-and-paste game design. Even RE3 had the foresight to change the appearance of the RPD just a little bit. It's also lazy because Alchemilla, a hospital that the main character would have had an actual connection to, would have made more sense for the game than Brookhaven.

As for nitpicking problems: really? Pointing out a clear fault in an old game is nitpicking, but saying that enemy designs are terrible (which is entirely subjective) and that the games "feel like knock-offs" are absolutely valid criticism?

Homecoming is the only game in the series where enemies actually pose a legitimate threat, where you can actually run out of ammo not because there's so many but because there is an actual scarcity of ammo. It's probably the only true "survival horror" in the entire selection, but then again SH has never claimed to be anything but "psychological" so you might have a point.

I'm not "justifying" anything - and the implication that a "justification" is necessary is overreaction at its best - I'm simply pointing out that older entries aren't beacons of creativity and originality, nor are they exempt from action-oriented gameplay. In fact, one of the primary purposes of the aforementioned SH3 was an emphasis on combat.

I've no loyalty to any specific developer of the Silent Hill franchise, so I can see the faults in every game, not just the Western-developed entries. The games haven't declined as far as I'm concerned, so I take issue when I hear blanket statements that rely entirely on opinion and nostalgia bias. But this is an old argument, one not worth having, so I'll leave it at that and return it to the topic at hand, which is Downpour:

Spoiler:

show spoiler

At the end of Ending B, Murphy walks away from the bus, potentially toward water. Some have speculated that he's going to commit suicide ala James, but I don't think that's the case. He's been granted his freedom (both from himself and the police) and I see no reason for him to off himself. Do you agree with the "in water" resolution or that it was simply nothing of consequence?

[News Bot]

As for nitpicking problems: really? Pointing out a clear fault in an old game is nitpicking, but saying that enemy designs are terrible (which is entirely subjective) and that the games "feel like knock-offs" are absolutely valid criticism?

It's not a fault, though. Never said the enemy designs were terrible. And yes, the fact that they feel like low-rate knock-offs that have difficulty being original is absolutely valid. If it wasn't, there would be no need to use Pyramid Head. Or the nurses. Nor would the "horror" feel plain and forced as opposed to foreboding, unnerving and genuinely frightening. The plot would also make a little bit more sense rather than people who barely understood the storyline of the first games attempting to write something to fit into them.

Homecoming is the only game in the series where enemies actually pose a legitimate threat, where you can actually run out of ammo not because there's so many but because there is an actual scarcity of ammo. It's probably the only true "survival horror" in the entire selection, but then again SH has never claimed to be anything but "psychological" so you might have a point.

Not sure what games you've been playing.

[Carnivol]

What I don't get is how a lot of magazines that had reviews of both SH HD Collection and Downpour "side-by-side" praise the brilliance and bla bla bla of 2-3 and then spend their entire review bitching about combat, camera, etc. in Downpour ... issues which are basically present in every single Silent Hill game (and, hilariously enough, to a lesser degree in Downpour than 2-3 which gets the nostalgia free pass.)

[Smiley]

Well in the case of IGN at least I think the Silent Hill fans realize how much credibility they lack giving Downpour a 4.5 and the HD Collection a 9 out of 10. You really have to wonder if they were given some golden copies or if they actually bothered to play the HD version at all. It's as if the 9 was purely because it was SH 2 and 3 as opposed to the quality of the product.

[Dracarys]

Well in the case of IGN at least I think the Silent Hill fans realize how much credibility they lack giving Downpour a 4.5 and the HD Collection a 9 out of 10. You really have to wonder if they were given some golden copies or if they actually bothered to play the HD version at all. It's as if the 9 was purely because it was SH 2 and 3 as opposed to the quality of the product.

Just to make it more of a mess, the vastly improved CVX HD they gave a 5 and bashed because of dated gameplay. SH HD collection...free pass despite same issues.

[Canas Renvall]

Yeah, there's appreciating a classic game, and then simply looking the other way whenever it shows faults...