Religion

[Darkmoon]

I really like this entire post! Oh, and just to make it clear, I don't personally consider all religion to be a form of brainwashing, I just brought that up because I know those that do, and I have seen it used in that fashion at least once on a friend. I also agree that problems with a couple with religion is relative and differs from pair to pair. I also like the idea that even if you raise children with religious views you teach them about other options as well. It only tends to grate me the wrong way when parents 'force' their children into certain ideas. This happened to a friend of mine and made her miserable. They kept telling her everything else was evil and wrong constantly, and that all her evil friends who thought differently, (including me) were hurting her and going to suffer eternal damnation. If they had handled it differently with her, it would have saved her and all her friends much grief.

It does happen, yes. But it also happens in non-Religious house holds. Those other sorts of people who aren't the same skin tone as me are scum come to take our jobs. Women need to stay in the damned kitchen and get me my damned sandwhich. Etc. Your friend is certainly unfortunate though. I was lucky enough to have very...accepting parents.

[Lilith]

My religion is Noahide. Essentially it works on the idea that the 613 laws given to the Jews were for the Jews specifically, but the laws given to Noah after the Great Flood were for humanity as a whole. It's essentially what became Judaism eventually. And there are aspects I disagree with, such as the prohibition against sodomy.

The flaw with that argument is that, by that standard, raising a child equates to brain washing them. You influence a child with your personal opinions all the time. Sense of morality, work ethic, money handling...all things we teach our children. If someone lives a carefree life style and teaches there child that spend, spend, spend is the way to go then that child is hardly ready for life in general, are they? Unless you have the income to back that life style up you'll end up in a lot of trouble over spending without thought, and ruin a lot of your choices in life.

I am raising my children with my religious views, but I'm also teaching them those of other religions and of science as well. It's up to them to choose. That is how I personally feel it should be done, and how my parents raised me. I was raised a Church of England protestant, for the curious. I disagreed that Christ was the Messiah and with the editing of various religious texts, and changed to an Agnostic for several years before becoming a Noahide about seven years ago.

Religion doesn't always help, that's for sure. Saying that, it usually serves as an excuse. War's are fought over resources, often with, 'They have blasphemed against our one, true God/Several Gods/Millions of Gods/Earth Mother/Sacred Spirit/The Ancestors and now we must kill them, take there fertile land and there diamond mine!' It's relatively rare for a purely religious conflict to happen. Take the Israel/Palestine conflict. The areas that are being argued over tend to be lands that have been heavily irrigated to make them fertile, not large chunks of wasteland, but the conflict is certainly driven by religious and cultural problems between the two lands. The Palestinians large rockets or send suicide bombers on to school buses, the Israelis demolish there villages.

Depends entirely on the couple. My mother and step father are a Protestant and a Atheist. They get along fine. Others are unable to accept there life partner has a different view, maybe because they feel it will harm them in some way, maybe because they just aren't comfortable with someone like that.

I really like this entire post! Oh, and just to make it clear, I don't personally consider all religion to be a form of brainwashing, I just brought that up because I know those that do, and I have seen it used in that fashion at least once on a friend. I also agree that problems with a couple with religion is relative and differs from pair to pair. I also like the idea that even if you raise children with religious views you teach them about other options as well. It only tends to grate me the wrong way when parents 'force' their children into certain ideas. This happened to a friend of mine and made her miserable. They kept telling her everything else was evil and wrong constantly, and that all her evil friends who thought differently, (including me) were hurting her and going to suffer eternal damnation. If they had handled it differently with her, it would have saved her and all her friends much grief.

[Karui]

I believe in ghosts I have heard them speak to me. I do believe also in pre-destination. I believe God has made us a certain way, with a certain way of thinking, feeling etc, and that even the uncontrollable happens for a reason. We just don't have the mind capacity to fully comprehend it all.

[Rose312]

As to ghosts, and UFO's, they're certainly a mystery. cameras there are 'for our protection.'

I don't really think UFOs have much to do with solving the "mystery" of religion...ghost help a little. Ghost give us a somewhat foreshadowing of a possible afterlife. Not quite the heaven we pray for though...

[Darkmoon]

Well, the idea that everything is predestined at the moment of the Big Bang is, I suppose, possible. But unlikely. Human beings are too chaotic for a simple chemical reaction to explain, and evolution itself is based heavily on the idea that a random mutation, such as a longer beak, gives a certain advantage and therefore more of those birds survive to breed, exacerbating the trait. And if this was would pre-destined in any way other than chemically that would certainly suggest a master plan of some kind...

As to ghosts, and UFO's, they're certainly a mystery. So many people claim to see them and yet there's not a shred of solid proof. I mean, you have things like the castle doors to the main hall of Dover Castle shaking terribly, with cameras on both sides showing no one was there (not that a single person could shake those doors) but as to what caused it...ghosts is only a theory. My personal belief is they exist, but it is based entirely on my experiences, so I certainly couldn't argue against the idea that some camera, somewhere should have got something. Especially in the UK with however many trillions of cameras there are 'for our protection.'

[Member_of_STARS]

Darkmoon, theres a theory (not really even a theory) that there actually is nothing random in this world. A kind of cosmic fate, if you will.

In simple terms, everything that happens today, at this moment, can be backtraced to one single event- the Big Bang. Everything that happens is a result of previous events (on every scale, and on its own, its nothing new, right?), which by default proves that theres no such thing as "random".

So "life evolving randomly" is not really true by any stretch, and believing that the first signs of life formed through amino-acids isnt a far stretch. Theres basically a huge number of explanations on why people turn religious, but my personal favourite is this-

Science is subject to the postulate of objectivity and to the method adopted by the detached observer and not directly involved with the event observed. The postulate of objectivity dictates that we obtain data from a world external to us, the detached observers, and we store and process it in a strictly logical way. Thus, there is an iron principle of transitivity in force, or rather I - observe and describe - something (subject, predicate, object) and in such the observer must not be involved in what is observed.

This basically leads to the simple problem that a person cant "observe his/her own consciousness" without metaphorically "detatching his soul from his body" which in its own right is wrong as our consciousness is reactions and synapses in our brain.

As for seeing ghosts when you were younger. I thought I saw a UFO when I was 7. 3 flickering lights next to each other in the sky. Ive been awake and seen more nights compared to when I was younger, and I have seen no such things. If these things existed, the mere fact that every living person has a recording device these days, would mean we would have videos of this crap flooding our internet. We dont.

[Darkmoon]

I don't think being religious makes anyone an idiot per se. I just can't see how anybody could be religious and not be one (qualified below). Maybe idiot is too harsh a word, but I really think that if someone believes everything a religion says unquestioningly, then they can't be too bright. Religions need people to believe things without evidence, and even in the face of contradicting evidence. And in my opinion, then yes, anyone who follows this hook line and sinker isn't thinking for themselves, ergo, isn't thinking.

Now I know you're a clever man Darkmoon. I know you have a degree in Archaeology which is testament to your intelligence. And I suspect that you've evaluated the evidence for and against the core beliefs of your religion (I don't actually know which. I'd be curious to know. If I remember correctly you said it was a rather ancient branch of a standing religion. If you don't want to publicise your beliefs that's fine). If you've evaluated the evidence and come to the conclusion that it is the truth, then I'm in no better a position to say it's not after I've evaluated the same evidence. There's no way to resolve the two, but agree to disagree, and that we're each satisfied we've looked at the evidence. I know that alot of people are personally spiritual (and don't identify themselves with a major church), and they reach this point after something happens to them that changes how they evaluate evidence.

What I mostly have a problem with is when children are inculcated into religions. The heredity of belief is something that a whole lot of extant religions have in common, and I think that there's a very good reason for it. I think children should be taught to think freely and evaluate evidence, and then if they come to the conclusion that a divine being created the universe, then that's fine.

In writing all this, I realise that I've said that I can't understand how someone could be religious and not be one (an idiot), and yet above, said that if they were introduced to it as a child then they'd know nothing else, and so possibly couldn't help it. I guess that someone would have to know that they had the ability to think for themselves before they could make up their own mind. If this was denied them, then yes, they could be religious, and never even pondered the questions of life, the universe and everything. And ultimately I think situations like this are sad, though are entirely the product of a religion.

Well, I suppose I should point out that all I can really say is that I have a degree. Can't exactly prove it, but Alexia and Zombie Fred crash in the room with my degree, so they can back me up.

My religion is Noahide. Essentially it works on the idea that the 613 laws given to the Jews were for the Jews specifically, but the laws given to Noah after the Great Flood were for humanity as a whole. It's essentially what became Judaism eventually. And there are aspects I disagree with, such as the prohibition against sodomy.

And yeah, I essentially came to the conclusion that a God exists based on my own life and own experience and the evidence I could gather. The chances of life evolving anywhere, at random, are astronomically high given how much random chance is involved in the process, how difficult it is for somewhere to have the exact right levels of heat, gravity, radiation and chemical balances for life...and, of course, the idea that everything in existence came from nothing.

It also helped that I ran into some ghosts when I was younger. Since it was a personal experience it's no compelling proof on an internet argument, really, and it does make me sound slightly mad to those who don't believe in ghosts, but it was enough to make me believe that ghosts do exist. And if ghosts do exist then a soul exists. Which means we aren't simply a mobile bag of chemical processes and neural messages formed by a grab bag of instincts and experience. There's no place in hard science for the soul. Again, though, I know as compelling evidence goes this one doesn't work at all. It's simply a personal experience that is partially the reason for my faith.

Some would say that all religion is a form of brainwashing. Children are indoctrinated into a religion, and sometimes forced into believing things from an early age. That in itself can be a form of brainwashing.

The flaw with that argument is that, by that standard, raising a child equates to brain washing them. You influence a child with your personal opinions all the time. Sense of morality, work ethic, money handling...all things we teach our children. If someone lives a carefree life style and teaches there child that spend, spend, spend is the way to go then that child is hardly ready for life in general, are they? Unless you have the income to back that life style up you'll end up in a lot of trouble over spending without thought, and ruin a lot of your choices in life.

I am raising my children with my religious views, but I'm also teaching them those of other religions and of science as well. It's up to them to choose. That is how I personally feel it should be done, and how my parents raised me. I was raised a Church of England protestant, for the curious. I disagreed that Christ was the Messiah and with the editing of various religious texts, and changed to an Agnostic for several years before becoming a Noahide about seven years ago.

My mom sometimes blames other Religions for the problems the world faces now...But wouldn't that mean people of other Religions blame her religion for problems? Such as the war in the holy land and such? Very interesting view on things...humans have a need to point the finger at someone/thing...why not be other religions/races/countries

Religion doesn't always help, that's for sure. Saying that, it usually serves as an excuse. War's are fought over resources, often with, 'They have blasphemed against our one, true God/Several Gods/Millions of Gods/Earth Mother/Sacred Spirit/The Ancestors and now we must kill them, take there fertile land and there diamond mine!' It's relatively rare for a purely religious conflict to happen. Take the Israel/Palestine conflict. The areas that are being argued over tend to be lands that have been heavily irrigated to make them fertile, not large chunks of wasteland, but the conflict is certainly driven by religious and cultural problems between the two lands. The Palestinians large rockets or send suicide bombers on to school buses, the Israelis demolish there villages.

Speaking of religion, its about married couple. What if one of the two parties have different religion? Should one abandoned the other and go with the other party's religion? or just go their separate ways on that part. Also what of their children?

Depends entirely on the couple. My mother and step father are a Protestant and a Atheist. They get along fine. Others are unable to accept there life partner has a different view, maybe because they feel it will harm them in some way, maybe because they just aren't comfortable with someone like that.

[Rose312]

Issues arising from these situations are the reason some religions discourage or forbid their followers to marry outside the faith. With christians it's referred to as, "unequally yoking yourself". Honestly, adding religious intolerance to a relationship tends to ruin it. I have two friends who lost their partners because they didn't believe in God and their prospective partners did. I think both should just accept each other's ideas and not worry about it. As for the children, the children shouldn't be forced into either religion. The parents should teach them about many ideas and encourage them to find their own paths. That way there is no brainwashing and no arguing. That way everyone can find their own way and be happy.

I haven't talked to her about our kids religious future..when we have them of course lol. But I'm sure when the time comes...if our kids want to experiment with religious things I'll let them...hopefully she will too.
Religion effects how people see things growing up...it gives them a death(afterlife) to worry about as well..heaven and such...

[Lilith]

Speaking of religion, its about married couple. What if one of the two parties have different religion? Should one abandoned the other and go with the other party's religion? or just go their separate ways on that part. Also what of their children?

Issues arising from these situations are the reason some religions discourage or forbid their followers to marry outside the faith. With christians it's referred to as, "unequally yoking yourself". Honestly, adding religious intolerance to a relationship tends to ruin it. I have two friends who lost their partners because they didn't believe in God and their prospective partners did. I think both should just accept each other's ideas and not worry about it. As for the children, the children shouldn't be forced into either religion. The parents should teach them about many ideas and encourage them to find their own paths. That way there is no brainwashing and no arguing. That way everyone can find their own way and be happy.

[Rose312]

My girl was raised Catholic and completely respects their ways, but she keeps Religion out of our relationship. A Relationship should never be based or backed up by religion

Speaking of religion, its about married couple. What if one of the two parties have different religion? Should one abandoned the other and go with the other party's religion? or just go their separate ways on that part. Also what of their children?

[Rose312]

My mom sometimes blames other Religions for the problems the world faces now...But wouldn't that mean people of other Religions blame her religion for problems? Such as the war in the holy land and such? Very interesting view on things...humans have a need to point the finger at someone/thing...why not be other religions/races/countries

[Lilith]

Then again, I don't consider a cult to not be a religion, unless of course it uses brain washing or other abusive methods to get and maintain worshipers, or when the leader is lying to his followers for his own benefit.

Some would say that all religion is a form of brainwashing. Children are indoctrinated into a religion, and sometimes forced into believing things from an early age. That in itself can be a form of brainwashing.

(Oh, and sorry for the double posts, I can't do multi-quotes. I'm a little dumb about that sort of thing. )

[Rose312]

Look like an enjoyable film lol

[Member_of_STARS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTTAS5KoieQ

I have to see this movie...