Religion

[TheSelfishGene]

I don't think being religious makes anyone an idiot per se. I just can't see how anybody could be religious and not be one (qualified below). Maybe idiot is too harsh a word, but I really think that if someone believes everything a religion says unquestioningly, then they can't be too bright. Religions need people to believe things without evidence, and even in the face of contradicting evidence. And in my opinion, then yes, anyone who follows this hook line and sinker isn't thinking for themselves, ergo, isn't thinking.

Now I know you're a clever man Darkmoon. I know you have a degree in Archaeology which is testament to your intelligence. And I suspect that you've evaluated the evidence for and against the core beliefs of your religion (I don't actually know which. I'd be curious to know. If I remember correctly you said it was a rather ancient branch of a standing religion. If you don't want to publicise your beliefs that's fine). If you've evaluated the evidence and come to the conclusion that it is the truth, then I'm in no better a position to say it's not after I've evaluated the same evidence. There's no way to resolve the two, but agree to disagree, and that we're each satisfied we've looked at the evidence. I know that alot of people are personally spiritual (and don't identify themselves with a major church), and they reach this point after something happens to them that changes how they evaluate evidence.

What I mostly have a problem with is when children are inculcated into religions. The heredity of belief is something that a whole lot of extant religions have in common, and I think that there's a very good reason for it. I think children should be taught to think freely and evaluate evidence, and then if they come to the conclusion that a divine being created the universe, then that's fine.

In writing all this, I realise that I've said that I can't understand how someone could be religious and not be one (an idiot), and yet above, said that if they were introduced to it as a child then they'd know nothing else, and so possibly couldn't help it. I guess that someone would have to know that they had the ability to think for themselves before they could make up their own mind. If this was denied them, then yes, they could be religious, and never even pondered the questions of life, the universe and everything. And ultimately I think situations like this are sad, though are entirely the product of a religion.

[Darkmoon]

Eh, I don't think being religious makes you an idiot Gene. I certainly like to think I'm not one. Then again, I don't consider a cult to not be a religion, unless of course it uses brain washing or other abusive methods to get and maintain worshipers, or when the leader is lying to his followers for his own benefit.

[TheSelfishGene]

But to add to the mature and civil discussion, in the opinion of ye faithful, what is the difference between a cult and a religion?

I think the answer you get depends on who you ask. I have no vested interest in defending either, and personally think that they're both identical, and one just has alot more idiots believing it than the other.

[Lilith]

Yes, I understand those definitions. I suppose it would be better worded to say that while deities are not considered idols, they are/can be idolized. Also, an idol can also be a representation of said deity, so could one worship an idol and still worship a deity all at once?

Ex. Virgin Mary statues, crucifixes, shrines to Ganesh or Shiva

[jagger916]

An Idol can mean more than a few things. Sorry, about the copy and pasting but I don't feel like typing a lot.
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1:a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly:a false god
2 a:a likeness of something bobsolete:pretender, impostor
3:a form or appearance visible but without substance <an enchanted phantom, a lifeless idol — P. B. Shelley>4:an object of extreme devotion <a movie idol>; also:ideal 25:a false conception :fallacy

While a deity...
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1 a:the rank or essential nature of a god :divinity bcapitalized:god
1, supreme being
2:a god or goddess <the deitiesof ancient Greece>
3ne exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful

[Lilith]

A deity and an idol are to different things.

Would you please elaborate on that? Unless you'd prefer not to. According to the definitions I've found, a deity can be an idol, although I'd have to say that not all idols can be deities.

[jagger916]

A deity and an idol are to different things.

[Lilith]

Perhaps go think again? Is God (or whatever variations people choose) not an idol?

As he mentioned in his post 'tangible'. God, at least in the Christian sense in not tangible, at least not any more. If Jesus can be construed as God, then he was tangible at one point, yes.

These are all acceptable definitions for 'idol':

"a material effigy that is worshipped"

"someone who is adored blindly and excessively"

"paragon: an ideal instance; a perfect embodiment of a concept"

[Lilith]

I think I might be that then. A non-denominational Christian.

And yes, I mean the Christian god, and Jesus in the strictest sense that he performed miracles and things like that.

Thank you for clarifying and satisfying my curiosity.

As for the difference between a cult and a religion, honestly? The number of followers, its social acceptability and status with national governments. Legally, religions have to be accepted at least here in the US, and noted as an official religion by the federal government. Then the organization can get tax exemptions and be treated like a not for profit organization. Normally, official religions have to have a member or number requirement and be socially acceptable. For example, Wiccan has some bad connotations, at least here, and it only recently was recognized as an official religion. So going by this definition and concept, all present religions began as cults. The ideas that cults are all 'bad' or 'evil' is also a misconception, although indeed some do practice animal sacrifice, hedonism, or satan worship.

[Stu]

A cult worships an idol or something tangible while a regular religion does not. I think.

Perhaps go think again? Is God (or whatever variations people choose) not an idol?

[Karui]

A cult worships an idol or something tangible while a regular religion does not. I think.

[Sina]

Yeah, facebook... See AA and Darkmoon? See how boring religious topics are when noone fights?

As for me, I practice no religion.

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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

But to add to the mature and civil discussion, in the opinion of ye faithful, what is the difference between a cult and a religion?

[Karui]

I think I might be that then. A non-denominational Christian.

And yes, I mean the Christian god, and Jesus in the strictest sense that he performed miracles and things like that.

I am too. Denominations and organised church is ruining it imo. It makes no sense why holiness people persecute baptists while they're worshipping the same god. It's oxymoron. It's the same god, but a different method of worshipping.

[Alexia_Ashford]

Nothing that's currently alive, including slicing a bit off and eating it. You've seen me eat kebabs before. Although whether that was ever alive is...questionable.

That's why I was baffled. About eating living stuff and I've seen you eat meat stuffs. I don't know anyone who eats anything that's STILL alive anyway though, that'd be cruel.

@ Rose

I didn't say beliefs aren't religion, the "still nothing really to do with religion" comment was aimed at the fact that when I asked you to get back on topic, you talked about a problem you had with Facebook, which is again, not much to do with religion and or religious beliefs. And just to re-iterate what Darkmoon just said, this topic is about religion and the religious beliefs of others, and it was made clear early on in the topic that we have to respect others religious beliefs - so a comment like "Fuck you Jesus", jokingly or not, could offend. So again, let's get back to discussing religion.

[Darkmoon]

For clarity, my happy little forum monkeys, post about your real religious views and discuss those of others. So unless you happen to truly be a Jedi (in fairness, I do know a Sith...) or a Cultist of the Old Ones, leave them out of the conversation.

And before someone asks, yes, I really know someone who bases his life philosophy on the Sith from Star Wars, and no, I'm not telling you any more. So need to ask or comment.