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  • #31
    How did I know this thread would immediately turn into a gun control shitfest?

    Originally posted by Code_R View Post
    The loss of life is a shame of course, but I don't see why this is getting so much media attention compared to all the other shitty things in the past week elsewhere in the world.
    Because the media are vultures, ghouls and ambulance chasers that are one of the primary causes of these things. They do nothing but inspire lunatics into copy-cat massacres through glorification and unnecessary drama. In the light of dramatized 24 hour news that has really only come into effect in the past two decades, mass murderers have earned a sick type of celebrity. Most of them are narcissistic fuckweeds, and what they want most is exposure. The media routinely ignores the advice of experts who say that the best thing to do is not heavily publicize the incidents or turn the murderer into some anti-hero who receives an entire life-story worth of coverage. It's another sick, twisted side-effect of a force that has become increasingly disconnected with the real world.

    Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

    Same shit, different day. Terrible tragedy.
    Last edited by News Bot; 07-21-2012, 09:54 PM.
    PROJECT Umbrella - The BIOHAZARD/RESIDENT EVIL Compendium

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    • #32
      Originally posted by News Bot View Post
      How did I know this thread would immediately turn into a gun control shitfest?



      Because the media are vultures, ghouls and ambulance chasers that are one of the primary causes of these things. They do nothing but inspire lunatics into copy-cat massacres through glorification and unnecessary drama. In the light of dramatized 24 hour news that has really only come into effect in the past two decades, mass murderers have earned a sick type of celebrity. Most of them are narcissistic fuckweeds, and what they want most is exposure. The media routinely ignores the advice of experts who say that the best thing to do is not heavily publicize the incidents or turn the murderer into some anti-hero who receives an entire life-story worth of coverage. It's another sick, twisted side-effect of a force that has become increasingly disconnected with the real world.

      Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

      Same shit, different day. Terrible tragedy.
      Love Bot is right. I took some time away from this topic, reanalyzed the topic and came to a realization. As much bickering as we do, we'll never agree with one another over this topic. (or damn near any other most likely)

      To me, and those here like me, people who are against weapons and/or weapon ownership were not raised or taught reverent respect for the power that lies within. We were taught the beneficial uses for these tools such as hunting to gather food, bonding experiences with those teaching us how to properly utilize them all while learning the reverence one should have for life. This is why those who grew up around and learned about gun safety will never understand someones opposing viewpoint due to their lack of experience on the subject. As far as most of us are concerned, people against guns are just short sighted idiots. (no offense, but you'll find it to be the truth) Because of that, most of us think you're wrong and we're right.

      ALTERNATIVELY, we gun advocates didn't have the same experiences in life that those who are against guns have had. We can't comprehend your thought process any more than you can comprehend ours. To them, we're just a bunch of short sighted idiots that shouldn't react so negatively to such an idea, and that gun advocates are obviously wrong and they're right.

      This will never, ever change. It's just human nature, and that's here to stay just as long as humans exist in this universe. Is this event horrible? Yes. But this person was intent on killing a LOT of people from day one, and in this case, if he hadn't of had guns he would have just made explosives (much like the ones in his apartment RIGHT NOW) and we'd probably have even MORE dead than we do now. So instead of bitching about who happens to be wrong or right, we should probably be doing something more constructive with our time, like donating to the relief fund that has been set up in honor of the victims of this tragedy.
      Last edited by AsteroidBlues; 07-21-2012, 11:19 PM.
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      • #33
        While I thank you for taking time to think about this topic in it's entirety and while I agree with you a topic like this will never end with agreement, it shouldn't be an excuse stop anyone from ever being able to see something from both points of view unlike what you say. To not do so is exceptionally arrogant and narrowminded. The whole reason this topic is contenious is because no one person will ever be right but they won't be wrong, but if you're not willing to consider both sides can have their fair say and not just think they're idiots for having a difference of opinion than you then you're not having a conversation.

        I'm not speaking for everyone but right from the start I was, for lack of a better word, attacked in this as if I was stating something from a either lack of understanding or indifference because in your words 'I'm never going to understand' because apparently there is only just a seperation between people growing up with guns and without guns.

        Yet almost no one tried understanding it from my side, or hell even bothered asking if I actually did grow up with weapons. You just assumed I didn't via your pre-judgement. You're also implying that I actually then also can never see it from your side either, and thats not true either. I'm just weighing up what is more personal risk to me and what I'd rather personally see happen. Your comments seemed to believe that anyone thinking about any level of gun control thus never deals with guns is highly narrowminded.

        Simple fact is I respect and apperciate the concept of gun safety simply because I DID even if that surprises you. My dad is a military and weapons nut, and even at his late age still is. He had and still has several weapons, plus hundred of books about weapons, military, and warfare. Aside from that I have many friends who frequently go shooting for ducks, rabbits, and possums here in NZ because thats what people from towns smaller than mine did for fun.

        Thats why I respect the power of weapons and understand I'd rather have more control put in it it means less crazy people are going to shoot me or even if I go hunting get accidentally shot because someone doesn't know the laws surrounding that.

        Otherwise aside from my issue with your attitude on this, at the end I do agree that a thread on a forum is never going to change anything and people in this topic have brought up perhaps more relevant issues such as mental health and the role of media in hype and coverage, and again thoughts and efforts for victims of this (and other massacres, gun releated or not).

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        • #34
          There needs to be some sort of limitations on being able to purchase guns legally. No normal person needs THAT MUCH firepower. I'm sorry. The 2nd Amendment was written when there were muskets and single-shot pistols, not assault rifles or shotguns. Things have changed and this needs to change. There's nothing wrong with a personal firearm for protection of yourself and your family, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

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          • #35
            Dracarys, now that you've gotten your jollies implying that the country as a whole is responsible for the actions of one sick lunatic and also implied that we're executioners pretending to be soldiers on this side of the pond, if you don't have any room left in your mouth for your other foot, just stop.

            I'll just leave a sarcastic meme here that has enough truth on both sides of the argument for people to at least get a bit of humor in this thread.

            Click image for larger version

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Wrathborne View Post
              Dracarys, now that you've gotten your jollies implying that the country as a whole is responsible for the actions of one sick lunatic and also implied that we're executioners pretending to be soldiers on this side of the pond
              You obviously got some mental issue over this that is affecting your judgement because you keep making silly posts like knives and forks made as deadly weapons and twisting things into stupid statements that were never said, so I'm not even going to reply to you any further.

              If you can discuss what is actually said and do it in a realistic manner I may reply again.
              Beanovsky Durst - "They are not pervs. They are japanese."

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              • #37
                There's a simple truth with guns - they make killing easier. Point a metal tube, pull a trigger, and someone across the street dies if you pointed it right. And you can do it again and again so long as you have ammo. The same cannot be said for any other weapon. A crossbow is slow as hell, a bow takes training. Knives require getting close, and if you use a sword and don't have training you'll cut your own dick off eventually.

                There needs to be limits. Personally, I think self defense is a terrible reason to own a gun, but it's ingrained in American society. You can't remove guns. You can tighten the laws, however. For a start, 'The Right to Bare Arms' is automatically bullshit. Criminal record? Can't have one. Mental health issues? Can't have one. Under 18? Can't have one. At least, I hope to hell those things exist. There is therefore no reason why laws can''t be tightened up.

                1 - All sales of guns, ammo and equipment needs to be registered to the owner and recorded in a central location. This guy bought all his shit in weeks without it throwing up a red flag. That should never, ever happen. You can yell 'big brother' all you want, but this stuff needs to be recorded and watched for exactly this kinda nutcase. Yes, he can still go and get them illegally, but it's not as easy (one should hope).

                2 - Training. Everyone who owns a gun should be required to take a test, and if they fail, they can't have a gun. We don't allow people to get into huge metal boxes and go screaming down the streets without knowing what to do, and guns are just as lethal.

                3 - Civilians should never, for any reason, be allowed to carry concealed weaponry in public. It's just a bad idea.

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                • #38
                  It's "Bear Arms" dear - not bare arms. Which means they need to be furry with claws or they'll end up pink in the sun... Most states, if not all, do require passing a test to have a firearm.

                  The system obviously needs updating - it needs to have the ability to put up red flags when many things are bought quickly like this (though would it mean those who think as carefully as this guy would just have spaced it out more?). I think it should also include the armor he was wearing - the guy was wearing a gas mask, throat guard, body armor...if there had been someone else with a gun who could see through the tear gas and think clearly enough to shoot there would have been no place really to do so that could have incapacitated him. There also seems to have been forgotten the large amount of explosives he had - if he hadn't had guns, he would likely have used those (and those are even harder to track than guns/ammo/kevlar). He had a mission and he was sticking to it, much like the Joseph Stack - the one who drove a plane into a federal building (the one with the huge anti-government manifesto that said violence was the only answer but wasn't labelled a terrorist ).

                  Which brings me to my final point - every one is calling him crazy/nut job when really, everything shows that this was well planned and clearly thought out. Yes, his choices were evil, but that doesn't equal the insane - he obviously had control over himself and his actions. The media news particularly is making a lot of excuses for the guy and painting him in the nicest way possible (he gets smiling picture, as did Joseph Stack, whereas the show bomber and the like who did no damage always get horrible shots) which is deplorable in my opinion. It's also interesting that none of them are linking it in the slightest way to the other recent movie related shootings (one in Oakland CA, another in Chicago IL) those aren't even getting a mention -- the media is always been hyper to link violence to these things, but not this time...arguable due to others not having the same demographics as Aurora.

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                  • #39
                    For anyone interested, the movie is estimated to have made $160 million in its opening weekend -- about $10 mil less than original forecasts before the shooting on Friday, and almost $50 million less than The Avengers.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vector View Post
                      For anyone interested, the movie is estimated to have made $160 million in its opening weekend -- about $10 mil less than original forecasts before the shooting on Friday, and almost $50 million less than The Avengers.
                      i've read numerous things. anywhere from $160 to $198. and twitter posts citing from completely empty, to half empty screenings for the film. definitely a lost potential against the avengers. what a mostly horrible year this has been.
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                      • #41
                        We won't know for sure for a while since Warners have decided not to release official numbers out of respect to the victims. It's all unimportant in the grand scheme of things, really, but I thought it was worth discussing.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by News Bot View Post
                          Because the media are vultures, ghouls and ambulance chasers that are one of the primary causes of these things. They do nothing but inspire lunatics into copy-cat massacres through glorification and unnecessary drama. In the light of dramatized 24 hour news that has really only come into effect in the past two decades, mass murderers have earned a sick type of celebrity. Most of them are narcissistic fuckweeds, and what they want most is exposure. The media routinely ignores the advice of experts who say that the best thing to do is not heavily publicize the incidents or turn the murderer into some anti-hero who receives an entire life-story worth of coverage. It's another sick, twisted side-effect of a force that has become increasingly disconnected with the real world.
                          You're definitely right about the celebrity thing. I've heard people like this guy, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, and serial killers like Bundy and Gacy mentioned like they were movie starts or something. But that's what they want, and it's fucking sickening that the media goes along with it. Are they simply stupid? Nope; they do it for the ratings. The public wants to see it. They're desensitized and dehumanized.

                          Originally posted by Vector View Post
                          There needs to be some sort of limitations on being able to purchase guns legally. No normal person needs THAT MUCH firepower. I'm sorry. The 2nd Amendment was written when there were muskets and single-shot pistols, not assault rifles or shotguns. Things have changed and this needs to change. There's nothing wrong with a personal firearm for protection of yourself and your family, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.
                          You have a point - weapons have gotten far more deadly over the past 230 years or so. A "personal firearm for protection," in my mind, equates to a non-automatic handgun. Anyone who isn't trained with handguns would be lucky to hit something 50-75 feet away, so it's perfect for close quarters self-defense and really nothing else. Rifles and shotguns are certainly questionable, since it's hard to imagine them being used in self-defense. There is no reason whatsoever that a civilian should be able to purchase an AR-15 or any assault rifle or submachine gun, since while they are sold to be semi-automatic only, they can easily be modified to fire fully-automatic. Such a thing is obviously not conducive to self-defense, and extremely dangerous if in the wrong hands.

                          Originally posted by Darkmoon View Post
                          1 - All sales of guns, ammo and equipment needs to be registered to the owner and recorded in a central location. This guy bought all his shit in weeks without it throwing up a red flag. That should never, ever happen. You can yell 'big brother' all you want, but this stuff needs to be recorded and watched for exactly this kinda nutcase. Yes, he can still go and get them illegally, but it's not as easy (one should hope).

                          2 - Training. Everyone who owns a gun should be required to take a test, and if they fail, they can't have a gun. We don't allow people to get into huge metal boxes and go screaming down the streets without knowing what to do, and guns are just as lethal.

                          3 - Civilians should never, for any reason, be allowed to carry concealed weaponry in public. It's just a bad idea.
                          I agree with 1 and 2, but 3 goes along with 2. There are many civilians who are better-trained with firearms than some police officers are.

                          Originally posted by Moonbow View Post
                          Which brings me to my final point - every one is calling him crazy/nut job when really, everything shows that this was well planned and clearly thought out. Yes, his choices were evil, but that doesn't equal the insane - he obviously had control over himself and his actions. The media news particularly is making a lot of excuses for the guy and painting him in the nicest way possible (he gets smiling picture, as did Joseph Stack, whereas the show bomber and the like who did no damage always get horrible shots) which is deplorable in my opinion. It's also interesting that none of them are linking it in the slightest way to the other recent movie related shootings (one in Oakland CA, another in Chicago IL) those aren't even getting a mention -- the media is always been hyper to link violence to these things, but not this time...arguable due to others not having the same demographics as Aurora.
                          I agree, and going back to what News Bot said, this type of coverage is what the piece of shit wants. They always do. And the media is too stupid to realize that they're making it worse by sensationalizing everything like it's some disaster movie. But it's not entirely their fault - if no one watched the news, the media would stop. The American public in general are morons who actually enjoy hearing about people dying in tragic ways (as long as it's not people they care about). No one would admit it, but that's how they feel. News should simply be news - no witness interviews, people crying, etc.
                          Mass production? Ridiculous!

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                          • #43
                            Exhibit A:
                            Spoiler:


                            Exhibit B:
                            Spoiler:

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Det. Beauregard View Post
                              The American public in general are morons who actually enjoy hearing about people dying in tragic ways (as long as it's not people they care about). No one would admit it, but that's how they feel.
                              I dont like hearing about people dying in Tragic ways, I've never liked hearing about people dying in tragic ways.

                              Your crude generalization of people in the country is your opinion and all, but the fact that you're saying everyone here in general loves to hear horrible stories about people being murdered by lunatics like Holmes is utterly asinine. Humanity has always had a fascination with death yes, but not an obsession with it(hopefully anyways).

                              If you had said that the media loves to hear about people dying in tragic ways, I would have agreed with you 100%, but people in general? Not at all.

                              If you're going to seriously say something as off as that, then you might need to take a better look at the world around you.

                              The worlds a horrible place, always has been, probably always will be. Guys like Holmes are a reminder, but the fact that you're going to say that most of us here in the US love a good murder is really vile. At least pretend to show a little respect for those of us who retain some of our humanity, we're people, not news organizations.
                              Last edited by Wrathborne; 07-28-2012, 01:07 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Wrathborne View Post
                                If you had said that the media loves to hear about people dying in tragic ways, I would have agreed with you 100%, but people in general? Not at all.
                                Media snaps it up first, then the people buy it and gobbles it up.

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