BH0/BH2 Laboratories Are Not the Same

[News Bot]

This forum needs some controversy that isn't 1.5 related.

I've thought about this for a long, long time and have reached a final conclusion. The underground laboratories in BH0 and BH2 are not the same, and there is nothing magic about the elevator. There is simply no conceivable way that makes any inkling of sense where they could be the same. I'll try and make this as comprehensible as possible.

1) Design
The similar design between both labs has been given as a primary reason that they are actually the same. However, aside from the resemblance, there's absolutely nothing that lends credence to that. Everything else goes directly against it.

The BH0 lab has a shorter master elevator hall. It's old, brick, crumbling and disused. The area behind the shutter has literally collapsed, and the shutter itself has a nice big hole ripped through it.
The BH2 lab has a longer master elevator hall. It's new, shiny, steel and operational. The shutter is undamaged.

2) Personnel
We don't see many people around in either lab, however certain things occur which are just ridiculous.

The BH0 lab is completely abandoned. Hunters and a Tyrant are wandering around. Enrico is able to walk right through, but not before getting off the master elevator in a supposedly top-secret facility where development on the G-virus was being conducted... and chatting with Rebecca right beside the "security" room. The BH0 guide says outright that the t-virus has spread to the lab and surrounding areas (treatment plant, factory, etc). UC goes even further and shows countless creatures wandering the area since the infection has spread to the lab by then.

3) Geography
The two labs being the same comes with CAPCOM being very ignorant of their own geography. Them being different means there is no contradiction.

The BH0 lab is located in the Arklay Mountains 8 miles north of Raccoon City right below the executive training school and Umbrella Sewerage Treatment Plant.
The BH2 lab is located in the center of Raccoon City itself with its secret entrance tucked away in the vacant lot of the Umbrella Pharmaceutical Factory in the industrial area (which is still very much in the city, not 8 miles away).

4) "The Door"
This Door is present in the train shed area in BH0. It is not present in BH2 or Outbreak, although some argue that it's not there just because of how the backgrounds are. This is very flimsy.

The door in BH0 leads to a tram connected directly to the church built at the same time as the executive training school.
There is no door in BH2, but the lab itself was built between 1991/1993... magically connected to a facility constructed decades before. If they were so connected, why was the Reclamation Project even necessary when anyone could just go between the two facilities? What was the point of the Ecliptic Express? How did it take so long for the B.O.W.s to get from one to the other?

5) The Number
The number on the train shed is different between BH0 and BH2, but it's the same between BH2 and Outbreak. They're different sheds connected by the same train line (another notch in the whole "network of Umbrella facilities" idea).

The T-001 gets into the BH0 lab because it was originally in the treatment plant being chemically disposed of. That means the treatment plant is right above the lab (T-001 appears in front of Rebecca very soon after breaking out of its capsule... coming down from the collapsed portion behind the shutter in the lab), and the executive training school is right above that since they explode at the same time. YET BOTH THE TREATMENT PLANT AND TRAINING SCHOOL BLOW RIGHT THE FUCK UP. Oh, and this is after Birkin says the self-destruct system is right where he is... in his own lab? Which is right below the two places he's going to destroy? The Ada drama album (written by Sugimura at the same time as Zero) also makes it pretty clear that the design of the two labs is a very common one used by Umbrella. Their secret France branch is the exact same.

5. UNDERGROUND LABORATORY, CORRIDOR

(SE) The two’s footsteps resounding eerily in silence.
Philippe: “It’s huge... Is this some sort of lab?”
Ada: “It’s all so much alike.”
Philippe: “Huh?”
Ada: “It looks just like Umbrella’s G-Virus laboratory in Raccoon City.”

Let the discussion begin.

[yurieu]

Is it wrong to say they are the same, but they did not want to remake all the areas? BH0 is my favourite.

ill post more later.

[Anders]

That, or nobody thought this through. At all.

[News Bot]

That, or nobody thought this through. At all.

I'm sure they did. There's nothing to support that they didn't, considering there's literally NOTHING that supports the two labs being the same apart from "uhhhhh they look similar!" Might as well say Raccoon City is in fucking France because the lab there looks "just like" it.

[SonicBlue]

Is not the same laboratory, but the area before was redone almost 1:1








The assets are different, so they probably made them with the same particularities (object position, camera angles, etc) just as a cameo.

[Det. Beauregard]

I was always a proponent of the labs being the same, but this simply makes too much sense. Nice analysis. And I was unaware of the French lab having the same design, too. Where did you find that info? I didn't know any details of the French facilities' layout existed, aside from what we saw at the beginning of Code Veronica (which may have been a different facility).

[News Bot]

Yeah, it's clear that the similarity is intended as a reference just like it is in the drama album. Umbrella have a habit of reusing designs, because the developers like throwbacks. To insist that they are the same lab is equal to insisting that every other similar looking area in the series is the exact same. The only way you can negotiate them being the same is, I shit you not, by bringing up the term "magic" for the elevator that connects the lab, plant and training school... but as I said in the first post, this is also impossible. Not even magic can make that sound believable.

I was always a proponent of the labs being the same, but this simply makes too much sense. Nice analysis. And I was unaware of the French lab having the same design, too. Where did you find that info? I didn't know any details of the French facilities' layout existed, aside from what we saw at the beginning of Code Veronica (which may have been a different facility).

It's from the Ada drama album, which was also written by Noboru Sugimura at the same time as Zero. It's referring to the secret France branch of Umbrella led by Christine Henry. The one in CODE:Veronica and GS4 is the Paris branch, Umbrella doesn't have a public "France branch."

[Dracarys]

Same lab.

Is just a mix of bad writing, cheap attempts to hark back at older games and a much required gameplay mechanic.

[News Bot]

Same lab.

Is just a mix of bad writing, cheap attempts to hark back at older games and a much required gameplay mechanic.

If you're not going to provide any reasoning, don't post. None of those cop-outs are backed up or make sense in their own right. You're only showing you don't know anything about what you're attempting to talk about.

[Guest]

Interesting thread! Out of curiosity, are there any references that state where the BIO2 tram actually leads and how far it travels when it leaves the factory?

[Dracarys]

If you're not going to provide any reasoning, don't post. None of those cop-outs are backed up or make sense in their own right. You're only showing you don't know anything about what you're attempting to talk about.

Blah blah blah. Singling me out again, get a life because that beyond pathetic.

Bad writing- Series full of, no exception here.
Hark back at older games - Pretty much every RE game does this in at least one blatant way.
Required gameplay mechanic - The lift to backtrack for any items, since no item box.

Just for you, I'm pretty sure the RE community is smart enough to know exactly what I meant.

[News Bot]

Interesting thread! Out of curiosity, are there any references that state where the BIO2 tram actually leads and how far it travels when it leaves the factory?

Outbreak probably would've shown if they ever released the other scenarios.

Blah blah blah. Singling me out again, get a life because that beyond pathetic.

Bad writing- Series full of, no exception here.
Hark back at older games - Pretty much every RE game does this in at least one blatant way.
Required gameplay mechanic - The lift to backtrack for any items, since no item box.

Just for you, I'm pretty sure the RE community is smart enough to know exactly what I meant.

1) And this case is bad writing because...? Even though the very same writer uses the very same laboratory design in another of his works and acknowledges that the design is the same, but they're different labs? Or did you conveniently miss that part in the OP?
2) They do it without being the same place.
3) They do it without being the same place.

I'll requote:

5. UNDERGROUND LABORATORY, CORRIDOR

(SE) The two’s footsteps resounding eerily in silence.
Philippe: “It’s huge... Is this some sort of lab?”
Ada: “It’s all so much alike.”
Philippe: “Huh?”
Ada: “It looks just like Umbrella’s G-Virus laboratory in Raccoon City.”

The only difference is that Zero doesn't have any self-referencing narration. Rebecca has never seen the place before, unlike Ada. The player is meant to connect the dots themselves. The situation is the same. They're both intended to harken back to BH2. Both do it without being the same place as BH2. Just as the Antarctic Laboratory manages to look the same as the Arklay Laboratory, but is still a different facility. Likewise with the Spencer Estate. And the Ashford manor in England. BH0 goes one step further in that it has a reason to draw a duality to BH2: it already draws duality between Marcus and Birkin. They both had the same motivations, goals, and fates.

I was actually dead-set on them being the same lab not too long ago. Until I actually started looking and reading.

[Dracarys]

Haha, referencing non canon material to try and back up a canon claim. Double standard hypocrite, tried dismissing entire arguments I've had for certain things for using even a tiny bit before and only for a supporting claim, and here you are doing it.

Priceless.

Using your own logic and argument then, you're undoubtedly wrong.

[News Bot]

Elements of the drama albums are canon. In this case Christine Henry and her facility. Whether it's canon or not doesn't even matter; the writer knew what he was doing with both, considering he wrote them at the same time (along with CODE:Veronica, which harkens back to BH1 in the exact same manner... twice).

Good try though. B-

[Zombie_X]

For one he was not singling you out. No reason to act like a jackass to him simply because he asked for some reasoning behind your statement. You're wrong, the Ada albums are canon, AND are written by the same guy who wrote Zero's scenario. I think this kinda proves that they weren't the same lab.

Granted I think they may have been tossed in as a nod to RE2, but the training facility and disposal facility are too far from Raccoon City so it can't be the same lab. If they were that close, the outbreak would have happened much sooner. The lab n Zero looked disused and was kinda sitting there rotting, while in RE2 it was full of workers.