Obama Elected President; First Black President in US History

[mamock116]

^well my insurance company pays for my xrays. besides i would much rather choose my own health care plan and price than be stuck with what the gov deems fit. plus when the gov runs the health system they choose how much doc will make and when that happens the incentive to be a doc (being rich and retiring early) is no longer there. when less people apply to become doctors then schools will have to lower the standards just to get doctors. why would i want to stay 10 years in school when i will be making the same as a 4 year degree. when that happens, instead of having an A doctor working on you, you will have a C doctor and nobody wants a C doctor performing open heart surgery on them

[Dot50Cal]

So you are more concerned for the millionaire doctors than citizens who are uninsured? That doesn't seem right to me. I'd much rather the people who really need help actually get it.

Rather than worry about the potential salary and loss of doctors, why not be more concerned with the health of the populace? I mean, its great and all that you have health benefits, but over 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, do not.

[mamock116]

why dont they? i was under the impression most respectable jobs came with health benefits (im not being sarcastic)

[Dot50Cal]

So your solution is to tell people to find better jobs? Thats pretty cold hearted. I don't have any statistics on why they can't, however if you consider the possibility that many of them lost their jobs with benefits (something thats becoming too common these past few months) then I'd say theres a start. Or if you look at the town I live in, which doesn't have many good jobs which pay benefits. Most people here work 9-5 in retail, which either takes a significant portion of your paycheck for health benefits, or you can decline and pay out of your own pocket.

A blanket statement that tells people to find better jobs is a pretty shitty reason for not wanting health care reform, imo. But lets assume that universal health care is done in the states. Then that frees up money in low income houses to send kids to college. So they can get GOOD JOBS. Good jobs like DOCTORS. Shit!

[Rombie]

Thanks for ignoring my comments mammock, you sheep

Your narrow minded and unopen views to any potential change to benefit anyone other than yourself shouldn't surprise me, I've seen it enough times. I wish there was more people like Dot in charge of things in the US who understand the benefits of assisting people on a fair level for a basic requirement of social health and care.

As I said earlier, you can still have your private health care if your insurance wants to pay for you to get it. Social health care is for people who either can otherwise get urgent medical coverage for emergency or, in the case of extreme serious injury or illness, can't go back to work and run out of insurance cover.

Socialist care also doesn't stop Doctors from being private or being well paid. UK doctors under their govt run schemes are paid as well as US ones just by example, and most countries have Doctor's and Nurses unions to make sure that all workers are being paid fairly. The ones in this country could hold the govt to ransom via strike if they felt they weren't being paid enough.

And just to even be clear on this, the way the current US system works... just because you have insurance doesn't mean you'll be given full cover or any cover by your company. If they don't think the payout is needed, the condition was correct by their standards, or they feel that you lied somewhere sometime about something they'll pull it out from under your feet. So what will you do then? Hope you've got thousands of dollars in savings to cover your bills.

Aside from Dot's comment about money being saved for higher education, money spent in the health system that put towards preventions, assistance, and other preventive programs can greatly assist other costs that social costs do have to cover, such as crime and law enforcement agencies, overcrowded prisons (of which the US is #1), homeless people, etc. etc. caused by ill, debt ridden, low or un-educated people.

[mamock116]

well to be frank money doesnt have a heart. (dont ban me im just debating) and to Rombie, i dont know where your from but only 60% of people in the US pay income taxes and there are alot of people that are too lazy to work and others have the misfortune of not being able to get a job in a timely manner (within a year in my opinion) so why should the 60% pay for the other 40%? personally im for the flat tax that way everyone paying equal taxes and the government would have much more money to spend on programs such as social security and medicare/medicade

[Dot50Cal]

I wont ban you for having a differing opinion

I guess we just have different philosophies on how the less fortunate should be treated. I believe that if you are better off, then why not try and help those who need help? I mean, yeah, you earned your place, but to get there, I'm sure you had to have help from other people. Share the love, man! As Rombie said, to limit essential services like health to only the wealthy just isn't right. I'm shocked we didn't adopt a national health care system yet. Its truly something all Americans should be embarrassed about.

Rombie, having me in charge of anything besides a website would be a catastrophic thing for the USA, hahaha. With Mr. Spencer as a key advisor, whispering about how the Japanese are plotting against us. The horror!

[Rombie]

Mamock - No offense intended with the sheep thing, I'm just kinda perplexed at the number of Americans I've talked to over the years who think some level of cover at all is almost like the end of the world. I kinda get the feeling though the only people I've ever met who've gotten it have either traveled overseas and seen how the system works elsewhere, or have had medical issues within the US and don't understand why there isn't at least some level of basic care provided.

As for the majority paying for the minority, sadly it happens... but as an example you already do pay for a large chunk of costs for people in other areas where social costs have to be covered.

Just taking the prison thing into example, IIRC the US spends about $70 BILLION PER YEAR on looking after all the prisoners currently in jail, I think it's like 1 person out of every 100 in the US. Who do you think pays for that?

Additionally without the tax issue, the richer get richer and the poorer get poorer based on not social status, but general living ability. But you live in a society where you are taxed to provide various types and degrees of service, as opposed to paying some sort of dictator directly and getting nothing out of it except to keep your land or your life.

The proviso is that you pay so others can be better, but the are also the people if you own a company who will work for you, people who buy your products, stimulate and grow the economy below you so that you can be who you are. Additionally, should for some horrible reason you lose your company, your finances, your job, everything, you know you've got the same medical cover that you provided to everyone else. It's not a great possibility, but given the collapse of companies, the layoff of workers, and the general economic decline which can happen... wouldn't that be a nice thing to potentially know.

Right now, if I break my arm in two places... I go down to the ER, I fill out a form and I'm given pain killers, I maybe sit for 20 mins, I get checked, I get X-rayed, I get given a script for anything I need, I'm chucked in a cast, and I then go pick up my two lots of meds. I pay $6. It affects my work, so I'm off work for 6 weeks... during which time I'm paid 80% of my weekly wage to cover my bills while I sit on my ass until I can go back, I then only have to pay a $32 charge for a follow up at a doctors and to have the cast removed. I'm sorry, I don't see why that sort of thing is an issue anywhere in the world.

Dot - Err, yeah... I don't think I could sit well with you and Mr. Spencer in charge of stuff indeed. Maybe it wasn't the best thing to say :p

[beasley23803]

Wow there are some really mean opinions in here. Anyhow the US government can raise my taxes to whatever if it means that other Americans are able to see a doctor or get an X-ray and don't have to worry about being $500 in debt. I wish I was rich. I'd start a program where I pay for the health care of the less fortunate. Or even assist those who have good jobs but they have debt that still prevents them from recieving health care. I guess I'm just selfless.

[kevstah2004]

Are Native Americans even given the opportunity to vote?

[SlurmsMackenzie]

Are Native Americans even given the opportunity to vote?

Of course they are

[abbatoo]

Nah, it's the morose mentality of the general populace, the jaded bitterness and the myriad disappointments that make us what we are.

I guess our countries do have at least a few things in common.

[Helegad]

I think Obama's biggest worry will be assassination by white supremacists. Bastards.

[Vector]

Are Native Americans even given the opportunity to vote?

WOW. Just...WOW.

[kevstah2004]

I wasn't talking about the ones who live on settlements and have a permanent contact address who have been know to accept cash intensives to vote a particular way in the past ;-), I was talking about the ones who move from camp to camp how do they get on the electoral roll without a permanent contact address? do they just turn up with their chiefs on voting day?