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1.5 Map Confusion

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  • #16
    hmm the crates / waste bins are in slightly different position there's a gap between the rails in the video if the crates / waste bins where moved out the way I bet they'd be a service ladder down the side of building on that photo it looks like there's some roof exit room in front of the crates / waste bins instead.
    If he had a brain, he'd be dangerous.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Alzaire View Post

      Also Harry, that Black Crow map is extremely difficult to understand (at least in the max size it shows up). Really bad design on Black Crow's part to try and put all the background images squished into those areas like that (not to mention he has them rotated and turned around in various places to match the internal layout, but that is just confusing for a regular person). Does he not still have the old version on his site? I know some people hated the way he had all those arrows pointing to stuff and it was a little bit confusing, but at least the map was clear and it wasn't too hard to figure out with the pointers.
      Oh, that was my meddling, I figured it might help him to understand the layout better without looking up the individual shots. I'll switch it.

      Click image for larger version

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      • #18
        Wow geez... thats a lot looks like I got a lot of stuff to look over! Thanks for the maps and images

        I'm having a really hard time fitting the stair well in the way displayed in your maps... I assume its not the same as my guess. Is the bottom left the stair well?

        [See]

        I can't make any sense of that map by BlackCrow. Too many pictures :S its pretty clustered. The basement layout looks alright, but I also think it's somewhat out of place. It looks very complicated. Also, since there is a morgue down there, I doubt officers would carry the body down. So again, maybe the elevator plays a roll there also. Also, the dog kennels would be near the parking lot also? for ease of access I guess. Is there any Corridor + door that you know 100% leads to a room? besides the morgue.

        Again, Thanks for the help

        Edit: Oh thats much better haha, thanks Harry.
        Last edited by Linzuki; 07-24-2009, 11:13 PM.

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        • #19
          Yeah that bottom left image is a stairway down to the basement. I believe if the 2nd version of the map is more accurate, it is the stairs in the upper right corner to the left of the C marked on the map. Otherwise if it's the stairwell next to the elevator, then the bottom part must extend out a little ways in order for the stairs to fit going down the east with the door in the basement exiting the east wall too.

          No I don't see how the elevator comes into play when thinking about the morgue. I doubt they bring in any bodies from the first floor. They are probably brought in through the parking garage into the basement, which is also likely how they are brought in in retail RE2 as well.

          The second version of the map looks more complicated than it actually is. I think it's just cause of all the text and letters, as well as being overlaid on top of the 1st floor map for reference.

          The main area of the basement is about all we can almost positively map. The morgue, power room, and a stairwell and the hallway area that joins these are the most common and completish material. Mapping the rest of the basement is pretty much full-on guesswork using available screenshots and video. And there just isn't enough.

          There's a few other shots of basement areas. There's an image of the armory door from the outside and it's hallway. The kennel door and it's hall and the door from inside the vehicle service area into the parking garage are available. There's a questionable door that I speculate leads into the forensics room. And depending on which map version is more accurate, there is possible a shot of the door that leads into the service area of the garage.

          It's hard to really get anything to work right. For one thing Capcom has made several errors and perspective inconsistencies that could make an accurate layout look inaccurate due to it. Also considering we're working with images and video from generally 3 or 4 different builds of the game makes it difficult as well considering it's highly likely things were changed, layouts were shifted around, doors have different textures, ect. Heck, the kennel is a good example of how one set of images from it is complete (the dog cages are modeled) but another screenshot does not have the cages modeled and those images are from the same build.

          The good thing is there really is a lot of media regarding the basement, enough to at least make serviceable attempts at the map. There's much less of the upper floors to work with and impossible in that area.

          If I can get around to it, I'll try to post up some images and video screenshots to show some things.
          Last edited by Alzaire; 07-25-2009, 12:42 AM.
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          • #20
            I see.. Well, I'll play around with it myself based off your 2nd map. I'm looking at all the videos I can find, but theres 2 things that bug me about that stairwell... for 1, the way the current layout is now, there isn't enough space for the platform and the stairs. If the door opens and you go straight down the stairs then they appear to be extremely steep, so I don't know if a right angle comes into play with the platform (like in the map I guessed out). Secondly, I can't see down the side of the stairs, so it might be that there is another door down there or something along those lines. Regarding the Garage, the one shown in the concept art is on level with Floor 1. I can't figure out how it gets to the basement. But I suppose things could have changed. Well, as always video or images are most appreciated, it's no rush so please take your time .

            1 more thing, are you 100% positive on all the room shapes or is it just a guess?

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            • #21
              Your note about the stairs is an issue that I've messed around with a lot. It can be solved in a couple of ways to a degree. The first one is to assume it's not the stairs that go down from the stairwell next to the elevator. The other way is to make the room longer east-ways on the basement floor slightly. It's still an odd steep stairs though, so I'm not 100% sure. Also the stairs may appear steeper than they actually are. c2keo (the background modeler for Dark Biohazard) and I talk a lot and he has showed me how angles and perspective can really skew things in the backgrounds, makings things look smaller, bigger, taller, shorter, ect. than they actually are.

              Sorry I should have noted that I was using the idea of the concept art to simply refer to a possibility that the parking garage is more aligned with the rear of the RPD as opposed to the east side like in the first version. It is still supposed to be underground, ramping up to the surface in the rear of the building. There's probably a large back lot of the RPD that is completely inaccessible (or if it is, there's zero indication or media of it).

              The only basement rooms positively shaped are the morgue, power room, the main hallway, armory, firing range, forensics, kennel, and the vehicle service area and the parking garage itself. The holding cells area is probably very close to accurate (door location fully guestimated).

              As for the shape of the basement itself, it's hard to say. There's only a couple of ways you can align the known doors and general layout with either possible stairwell in order for most of the basement to be aligned under the building and not stretching off far away from it.
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              • #22
                Mmhm, I see. Yeah thats right, it does make things look weird in the editor, strange field of view I suppose. I completely redid the stairwell part on my 3dmap. It's now more accurate and isn't so steep so thats good. Have you ever though that maybe the elevator ( me and that elevator huh ) goes down to B2? for more... extreme things. Firing Range, Armory, Sewer, so forth. Also, regarding the flaming truck. I can't quite see from the image, but it looks like it's taken down a wall. So is it possible that the car park exit comes out on the other side of that wall? it sort of fits into the basement map I've been working on (though I stopped until I can see more images and video, because I'm not 100% on the door placement).

                By the way, Sorry if you're thinking to yourself "Geez... this guy doesn't know much on 1.5" I admit I don't know a whole lot. I'm learning a whole lot of new things here, so Thank you all very much .

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Linzuki View Post
                  Have you ever though that maybe the elevator ( me and that elevator huh ) goes down to B2? for more... extreme things. Firing Range, Armory, Sewer, so forth. Also, regarding the flaming truck. I can't quite see from the image, but it looks like it's taken down a wall. So is it possible that the car park exit comes out on the other side of that wall? it sort of fits into the basement map I've been working on (though I stopped until I can see more images and video, because I'm not 100% on the door placement).

                  By the way, Sorry if you're thinking to yourself "Geez... this guy doesn't know much on 1.5" I admit I don't know a whole lot. I'm learning a whole lot of new things here, so Thank you all very much .
                  It is quite possible the elevator goes down to a B2 (a stairwell would also have to go down to it as well though, or it wouldn't be practical). I have considered the possibilities of a B2 for the RPD before, so I'm not against the idea. I've just not been able to map anything good because most of the main basement halls we have footage of are pretty much for sure on the B1 area, leaving very little or nothing to fixate positioning and design for a B2.

                  I think you're saying the idea of the parking garage exiting out directly across from the burning van to the east? No, I don't think that's practical. That would put a large portion of the RPD's basement way across the street underneath a random building. The first version of my map where the parking garage ramps up and exits out the east side of the RPD can make the placement of a crashed police van in the wall pretty understandable.



                  If the garage exits out there, it can be assumed the reason the van crashed into the wall is probably due to a hectic atmosphere at the time. The parking garage in 1.5 is a mess with crashed cars, damage, ect. I'd venture to say it would be likely a car was exiting the garage while the van was trying to return into the garage and due to the confusion, the van crashes into the wall.

                  And no it's ok about not having much information. There honestly isn't really a very good central place for accurate or specialized information for 1.5 at this time, since Bioflames is way out of date, the forum is mostly dead except for some modders, and the most informative information and Inflames' exclusive final beta images are scattered throughout various posts and topics dating back over months and years. I know it's very slow going, but this is why I look forward to when Dot50 and I can get to some real work on the 1.5 section for the site. Just have to wait for Dot to finish the RE1 section first.
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                  • #24
                    The ramp makes sense. This is what I had in mind... [See]

                    Though the rooms are likely not that far into the corner, and the way the car park faces is questionable. Since I haven't seen those rooms (apart from some of the prison cells from dark biohazard trailer, which is also questionable if it is accurate or guess work) I can only guess room placement, going solely by the door placement on your basement map. Though, I hope this gives you an idea of how the layout is. The one problem I have is room proportions, It's hard to get all the rooms to fit. I think you've got the firing range and armory spot on, unless (if you have footage of) the armory is missing the shutter in the wall. It makes sense, so officers can get their equipment through the shutter instead of walking around.

                    I understand about the information being all over the place, I'm glad that You and Dot are working on that, and I'm sure plenty of people are grateful for it so no rush. I'll slowly map out all I can in the source engine and run through it to see if it looks right. By the way, do you know anything about the project that Marvin is working on? is he doing a remake on 1.5 or something? seems interesting.

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                    • #25
                      Your placement doesn't work. The building you have colored orange with the ramp green on your image is a building across the street from the RPD.

                      This building. It's seen from a further distance from the balcony above the burning van, but this is definitely the same building. (the one circled in white)



                      This is the layout of the Parking Garage and accompanying Vehicle Service Area. Layout is almost guaranteed accurate, though the map I drew is likely not to perfect scale.



                      The armory and firing range layout is as I drew it, though once again the proportion scale may be off and the placement is working guesses. The only open window in the armory is between it and inside the firing range.

                      Dark Biohazard is not a recreation of 1.5, it merely has some inspirations from 1.5. The prison cells in the DB trailer are fully a creation of c2keo's design and not mean to be accurate recreations of 1.5's. There's not much footage of the holding cells area.

                      In fact, there's only footage of 3 parts of holding cell area. This leaves full speculation on the design of the hall and/or doorway leading into that area.





                      The playstationmuseum 10 minute video includes footage of the holding cell area, but again only shows this same stuff.

                      As for Marvin's project, I have no idea what he's up to with it. But, no offense to him, he's working on it solely by himself (from what I understand) and has been doing stuff on it for like a couple years now or so and has very little to show for it so far (though claims to have made some decent progress). I have been considering getting in touch with him personally to see what's going on. I admit I'm a bit skeptical on his project since almost zero projects ever get far or get finished, but we'll have to see. I don't think he wants anything to be known publicly at the moment though, judging from what he's said in a couple of his lasts posts about the project on Bioflames.
                      Last edited by Alzaire; 07-26-2009, 08:36 AM.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Alzaire View Post

                        There's not much footage of the holding cells area.

                        In fact, there's only footage of 3 parts of holding cell area. This leaves full speculation on the design of the hall and/or doorway leading into that area.





                        The playstationmuseum 10 minute video includes footage of the holding cell area, but again only shows this same stuff.
                        the room before the museum footage Click image for larger version

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                        also the garage deal there...the doors don't match between the service area and the parking garage. I'm assuming that's one of those little errors on fusing differant game builds?
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                        Last edited by Harry Mason; 07-26-2009, 08:51 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Aha I see, now I know the layout much better. Something I noticed... it seems to have 2 shutters. I guess 1 for in and 1 for out, but it would need wide space on 1 of the sides of the building. Also if that building is in the way wouldn't that rule out this theory? (sorry I don't quite understand)

                          because the cars and trucks would need the space to get out onto the road also.

                          The building looks tall, if not taller than the police station itself. The ramp opening seems to be a lot lower... This is why I think the car park is much smaller on the map than speculated. Confusing stuff... It would be good to figure out some definite paths and doors, like the stairwell>hallways>morgue and power room. I'm guessing the concept art for the police station is back when it was in early alpha and has likely changed considerably since?
                          Last edited by Linzuki; 07-26-2009, 10:18 AM.

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                          • #28
                            I've been messing with the idea of a basement map, but never really made an effort before...so here's my partial guess.

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                            maybe turning the garage will fix the problem with the earlier one...
                            Last edited by Harry Mason; 07-26-2009, 04:45 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Nice map By the way, is this the building you're talking about?



                              It's hard to say about the exit for the car park. I'd guess that the crashed truck was just driving down the (possible) road and swerved to avoid hitting someone. Or they got infected and thought it would be a good idea to try and drive... never know. By the way, any idea what is beyond this shutter?


                              Also I did this... I'm not sure if you have it already or not but I removed the text from this. I didn't put too much time into it so sorry it looks kinda blah

                              [See]

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                              • #30
                                Actually it looks cool without the text
                                Yeah that's the building across the street,
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                                as for the truck their was probobaly a FMV that would have explained the crash..but I don't know anything about it other than the obvious ending.

                                That back shutter I know nothing about but it probably goes outside since there are windows back down that hall.
                                Last edited by Harry Mason; 07-26-2009, 02:55 PM.

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