1.5 Map Confusion

[kevstah2004]

A MAC-10 for Jill and an FN Minimi for Chris, I'm sure that's the FN Minimi Leon is carrying in the above video.
The MC51 = the Calico?

[Harry Mason]

O.o Solid Eye? xD all I see is a some what scrambled image. I guess its one of those trickery images? O.o like those black dots that mobile phones can turn into text somehow...

Google "stereoscopic photo" mines not a very good one I'm still trying for better results, it's harder to make a 2D photo into 3D than just grabbing a couple cameras and taking a pair of pictures and making them stereoscopic.

Here's a pic of Solid Eye

[Alzaire]

A MAC-10 for Jill and an FN Minimi for Chris, I'm sure that's the FN Minimi Leon is carrying in the above video.
The MC51 = the Calico?

The Mac-10 that Jill can get in RE1 PC is probably similar to the one in 1.5, though the one in 1.5 seems to resemble the Mac-11 from retail's model.

There is no FN Minimi or similar machinegun in 1.5. We have a list of all the weapons and items in the game, so we know what is available. The Calico is not in 1.5.

The MC51 is this:


It's the machinegun that Leon is using in the video. It's the main machinegun in 1.5. It was originally going to be in retail RE2 as well, but they scrapped it.

Leon can't use the grenade launcher. He uses hand grenades instead. And yeah, that's him throwing grenades. The goromacida video also shows Leon using hand grenades. They come in 3 types, just like grenade rounds. Acid, Flame, and Explosive.

Linzuki, I'm currently not working on a 3rd version of the Basement map at this time. c2keo is too busy atm to help out and recreate backgrounds or use 3d modeling to check if placements work, and work on the THIA 1.5 section is on the backburner, so no point in devoting much time to it right now. But I do still check to see if any of the random ideas I get at times works and have made some notes about things. But atm, I probably won't be drawing another one up unless I make a breakthrough. But you can use my map as a basis if you want.

[SonicBlue]

Sorry Alzaire, I doesn't mean the quality of the various pictures, but the quality of the BSS prerender backgrounds



The first picture seems to have a Resident Evil 1 graphic style compared to the other one, I mean that, maybe are just the color palette, but the "Umbrella Lobby" looks very bad compared to the other areas

For the machine gun (that looks like a HK 53 ---> ) wasn't also the Clair machine gun of the Beta 1?

[kevstah2004]

Re-watch the video he holds and fires a grenade launcher at zombie after throwing the grenade you can see the reloading animation it's the grenade launcher shot that kills zombie not the grenade he actually threw watch his hands and you'll see the full barrel of the launcher.

I'm sorry but that machine gun he uses in the video looks nothing like a MC51 the nozzle isn't long enough for a start.

[SonicBlue]

Damn was already posted XD

In the video you can see the typical M249/M60 etc magazine

[kevstah2004]

Sorry Alzaire, I doesn't mean the quality of the various pictures, but the quality of the BSS prerender backgrounds

That room looks slightly like room 11C from RE3 what with the orange lighting, tiles and pipes.

[Alzaire]

Sorry Alzaire, I doesn't mean the quality of the various pictures, but the quality of the BSS prerender backgrounds



The first picture seems to have a Resident Evil 1 graphic style compared to the other one, I mean that, maybe are just the color palette, but the "Umbrella Lobby" looks very bad compared to the other areas

For the machine gun (that looks like a HK 53 ---> ) wasn't also the Clair machine gun of the Beta 1?

Oh I see what you're saying about the backgrounds. Yeah some of them seem kinda bad or different quality, esp. as you say with the Umbrella building lobby. They are unfinished though and probably just hadn't been fine-tuned yet.

And omg I hope you're merely telling me the gun resembles the HK53 and not that -is- an HK53. I've had to fight that argument so many times, it's not even funny...

The MC51 is a real gun and looks exactly like it does in the game image. It's a variant of the G3 made by FR Ordinance in the UK. The inventory name for the item supports that it is an MC51 (see below)

Sorry Kev, but neither of the points you brought up are correct based on game data and information. There is no such weapon you describe in 1.5. It -is- the MC51 machine gun being used. The Complete Disc video you're basing your visual evidence on is blurry and bad quality and the length of the barrel you drew is longer than it actually is. I don't see why you're really trying to argue this with me when I already stated the item list doesn't support it. The entire 1.5 weapon list is known, confirmed by actual game data, and your machine gun is not in it.

And it is confirmed as fact by the person who took Inflames's images (and hence has played the game) that Leon does not have access to the grenade launcher. He uses hand grenades only. Leon is in the "ready to throw" position in the video. Even if you were right, which you're not, how would you explain him switching from hand grenades to the grenade launcher in real time? I've studied this video many times, as someone else tried to argue the same thing before years ago. There is no launcher there, if anything you're seeing video distortion. You can watch the goromacida video where Leon throws grenades too and see he uses the exact same "ready to throw" stance when aiming the hand grenades.

And to prove my first point about the machine gun. Let's look at the complete and confirmed legitimate 1.5 Weapons List straight from 1.5 game data itself.



Sorry, no M249, Minime, or any other machinegun beyond the MC51 and Ingram M10. The game model of the weapon is slightly oversized, and it has a squarish straight magazine, this is why you think you're seeing the box magazine of the squad-weapon, esp. considering the CD video is not top quality enough. If you look at other footage, esp. RE2 97' E3 footage, from when the MC51 was still in early RE2 retail, you can see how it it's a little oversized and the magazine looks blocky and large.

And just to clarify, it's pretty obvious Capcom made a mistake with the MC51 item name (this isn't the first time they got a weapon name/model wrong either). I imagine they were going for "H&K NC51", but you can google up NC51 all you want and find nothing. The fact the same weapon was brought from 1.5 into early RE2 and the inventory picture and details match the MC51, it is pretty evident this item is indeed, the FR Ordinance MC51.

[kevstah2004]

I have a theory about the grenade launcher in that build, the sound / explosion effect wasn't complete so they had Leon shoot the grenade launcher to demonstrate the effect of the earlier thrown grenade. Remember there is tons of different builds people have different builds from various stages of development the build your sources probably have is later to the one that appears on the complete disc.
I don't know how they'd switch it in-game but sure it was possible with whatever debugger they where using for the game even with the distortion I can clearly see the reloading animation of the grenade launcher along with him putting in a new shell.
Leon throws the grenade at 0:23 he runs further up then he shoots the grenade launcher at 0:26
the reloading animation can be seen at 0:26-28.

[Alzaire]

That's not a grenade launcher reloading animation or a grenade launcher being fired.

Leon throws the hand grenade underhand style with his right hand and his left arm pulls back and down slightly with the body twisting motion of the throw. What you see as as reloading animation is Leon's right hand returning to his hip and his left hand returning to to his right hip to grasp the pin of the grenade to throw the next one.

The way the video shows it is:

-Leon low-drops a grenade into the water with a zombie. He runs back a little.
-Leon then turns to face the camera and enters the "ready to throw" position with a hand grenade. He holds the hand grenade at his hip with his right hand and his left hand also moves to his right hip to hold the pin.
-A brief second after Leon enters the position, the first grenade he dropped into the water close to camera explodes and he immediately pulls the pin and lobs another grenade toward camera.
-After throwing that grenade, the player never let go of the aim button and so Leon once again returns to the "ready to throw" aiming position and begins to turn his aim.

What you're seeing as a "reloading animation" is the very quick motion Leon makes as he pulls the pin on the grenade he lobs towards camera, throws it, returns his right hand to the hip with another grenade, and his left hand returning to grasp the pin on the next grenade.

I also see no grenade launcher barrel. I watched it carefully over 2 dozen times and all I see is Leon turning around and bringing his right arm up and bending it a roughly 45degree angle at the hip holding a hand grenade. The grayish part you're probably mistaking for the barrel is the whitish/gray portion of Leon's uniform on his forearms.

Your theory doesn't hold up well either. Obviously I know about varying builds and such. But the Complete Disc build and the final build are the same. The hand grenades were a finished weapon by the 4th build era (final being 5th) and the grenade launcher worked fine in the very next CD video when Elza uses it. The way the game uses weapon selection in debug is being able to put any weapon in the inventory, not switch on the fly onscreen. Leon also shouldn't be programmed with an animation to use the grenade launcher anyway. The GL is Elza's specific weapon, while the hand grenades are Leon's specific weapon. Similar to how the bowgun is Claire's and Leon gets the shotgun in retail. Neither can use the other person's weapon. Elza does not have access to hand grenades.

The Complete Disc video is showing off the hand grenades in the second video. The third CD video shows off the grenade launcher. There's no need for them to mess around shooting off a hand grenade with a grenade launcher when the animation for the hand grenades for Leon were complete an entire build earlier and Elza's seen using the grenade launcher no problem.

[Linzuki]

Google "stereoscopic photo" mines not a very good one I'm still trying for better results, it's harder to make a 2D photo into 3D than just grabbing a couple cameras and taking a pair of pictures and making them stereoscopic.

Oh right, I see what you mean. I'm not sure how you go about doing those kind've images, the channels probably need to be moved more... it's barly noticable xD but here...



I'm probably wrong o.o but whatever. It seems interesting lol.

I probably won't be drawing another one up unless I make a breakthrough. But you can use my map as a basis if you want.

Cheers, Alzaire! I'll have to look up on these known rooms sometime though so I can get the right textures down. If I had more time to learn how to mod character textures, it would be pretty fun to play with L4D. Reskin Zoey as Elza, The tank can be the giant ape, >_> everything else but zombies can go. But unfortunately, it would require a lot of stuff I don't think I can get. Coders would be nice but meh.

[kevstah2004]

That's not a grenade launcher reloading animation or a grenade launcher being fired.

Leon throws the hand grenade underhand style with his right hand and his left arm pulls back and down slightly with the body twisting motion of the throw. What you see as as reloading animation is Leon's right hand returning to his hip and his left hand returning to to his right hip to grasp the pin of the grenade to throw the next one.

The way the video shows it is:

-Leon low-drops a grenade into the water with a zombie. He runs back a little.
-Leon then turns to face the camera and enters the "ready to throw" position with a hand grenade. He holds the hand grenade at his hip with his right hand and his left hand also moves to his right hip to hold the pin.
-A brief second after Leon enters the position, the first grenade he dropped into the water close to camera explodes and he immediately pulls the pin and lobs another grenade toward camera.
-After throwing that grenade, the player never let go of the aim button and so Leon once again returns to the "ready to throw" aiming position and begins to turn his aim.

What you're seeing as a "reloading animation" is the very quick motion Leon makes as he pulls the pin on the grenade he lobs towards camera, throws it, returns his right hand to the hip with another grenade, and his left hand returning to grasp the pin on the next grenade.

I also see no grenade launcher barrel. I watched it carefully over 2 dozen times and all I see is Leon turning around and bringing his right arm up and bending it a roughly 45degree angle at the hip holding a hand grenade. The grayish part you're probably mistaking for the barrel is the whitish/gray portion of Leon's uniform on his forearms.

Your theory doesn't hold up well either. Obviously I know about varying builds and such. But the Complete Disc build and the final build are the same. The hand grenades were a finished weapon by the 4th build era (final being 5th) and the grenade launcher worked fine in the very next CD video when Elza uses it. The way the game uses weapon selection in debug is being able to put any weapon in the inventory, not switch on the fly onscreen. Leon also shouldn't be programmed with an animation to use the grenade launcher anyway. The GL is Elza's specific weapon, while the hand grenades are Leon's specific weapon. Similar to how the bowgun is Claire's and Leon gets the shotgun in retail. Neither can use the other person's weapon. Elza does not have access to hand grenades.

The Complete Disc video is showing off the hand grenades in the second video. The third CD video shows off the grenade launcher. There's no need for them to mess around shooting off a hand grenade with a grenade launcher when the animation for the hand grenades for Leon were complete an entire build earlier and Elza's seen using the grenade launcher no problem.

So in essence he tried throwing two grenades but holds on the second one without releasing the pin?
there's no waiting / bored animation?

[SonicBlue]

And omg I hope you're merely telling me the gun resembles the HK53 and not that -is- an HK53. I've had to fight that argument so many times, it's not even funny...

no no XD

Only that looks like, the magazine shape is also different.

Some years ago (maybe 2001 or 2002) I've read about a fact (I don't remember if was on the Internet or in a game magazine) that some Capcom programmers, designer, etc, in 1998 switched to Squaresoft and then they works on Parasite Eve 2, just look at the body armour (also in PE 1 but the function is different), the Beretta M93R was the Aya starter weapon and also there are the shooting polygon.

[Alzaire]

So in essence he tried throwing two grenades but holds on the second one without releasing the pin?
there's no waiting / bored animation?

Yeah, for the most part that's right. The aiming animation for the hand grenades is Leon holding the grenade near his right hip and his left hand holding the pin. The player didn't release the aim button after throwing the grenade, so the animation readies another grenade throwing aim position, just like any weapon in the game stays in the aiming position if you don't release the aim button. The character never stood long enough while still not in the aiming position in that clip, hence no simple idle stance.

[Ridley W. Hayes]

Kev, mate, you can also see the granade flying trough the air toward the camera after Leon throws it. See attached.

Alzaire, about the number of floors on the RPD, I asked that once in the 1.5 thread of the PlayStation Museum forums. I don't remember very well, but I think the Curator said there were only two floors with the helipad being the 3rd. Did anyone save the answers he gave to the questions I asked? I don't seem to find them in my hd.