IGN Reviews Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles

[Archelon]

I wouldn't go so far as to say RE0 screwed the canon, but it did make it more needlessly complicated and convoluted than it already was.

[News Bot]

I didn't say that Zero "screwed the canon". I merely said that the files in Zero are poorly written.

And sorry, but every bio for the Plague Crawler says it is genetically engineered by splicing the genes of several insects and then dosing them up with the T-virus. They were created around the same time as the Hunter and Chimera, early-mid 80s. Find me an insect that would be the Plague Crawler pre-Progenitor. It doesn't exist. The Training Facility has no facilities that could possibly be used for genetic engineering, the damn thing closed in 1978. And by then Marcus had completely abandoned Progenitor. So you are trying to tell me that Marcus had access to genetic engineering and gene splicing long before Umbrella? Piss. Cloning in 1991 was a stretch.

Oh yeah, Archives was the main reference for RE5. The developers had the damn thing on their lap while developing the game. Why? Because they wrote it.

Lurkers, Plague Crawlers and Eliminators are all T-virus B.O.W.s. Sorry. Why would they be sitting around for 20 years? And why would Umbrella later develop the Eliminators in 2003? Marcus himself dropped ALL of his Progenitor research as soon as he developed the T-virus in January 1977 and Umbrella had absolutely no research on Progenitor going on by 1998, let alone 2003. Humans cannot be hosts for Progenitor at all, they fucking die. So why would Marcus, who was well aware of this, say that they would be the most compatible for the virus? That doesn't make an inkling of sense. The only survivor of Progenitor was Lisa Trevor, and it wasn't even Progenitor they used on her, it was an experimental variant. Wesker's virus is in the exact same position.

There isn't a single Progenitor B.O.W. in the series, as they cannot actually exist. The T-virus was made because of this problem. The closest to a Progenitor B.O.W. in the series is the administration of Progenitor to an already T-virus B.O.W. That resulted in the Licker Beta, and there were practically no changes aside from the ability to fuck.

Notice how Progenitor is only useful when its combined with something else? Yeah.

[BahamutRetsu]

I didn't say that Zero "screwed the canon". I merely said that the files in Zero are poorly written.

And sorry, but every bio for the Plague Crawler says it is genetically engineered by splicing the genes of several insects and then dosing them up with the T-virus. They were created around the same time as the Hunter and Chimera, early-mid 80s. Find me an insect that would be the Plague Crawler pre-Progenitor. It doesn't exist. The Training Facility has no facilities that could possibly be used for genetic engineering, the damn thing closed in 1978. And by then Marcus had completely abandoned Progenitor. So you are trying to tell me that Marcus had access to genetic engineering and gene splicing long before Umbrella? Piss. Cloning in 1991 was a stretch.

Oh yeah, Archives was the main reference for RE5. The developers had the damn thing on their lap while developing the game. Why? Because they wrote it.

Lurkers, Plague Crawlers and Eliminators are all T-virus B.O.W.s. Sorry. Why would they be sitting around for 20 years? And why would Umbrella later develop the Eliminators in 2003? Marcus himself dropped ALL of his Progenitor research as soon as he developed the T-virus in January 1977 and Umbrella had absolutely no research on Progenitor going on by 1998, let alone 2003. Humans cannot be hosts for Progenitor at all, they fucking die. So why would Marcus, who was well aware of this, say that they would be the most compatible for the virus? That doesn't make an inkling of sense. The only survivor of Progenitor was Lisa Trevor, and it wasn't even Progenitor they used on her, it was an experimental variant. Wesker's virus is in the exact same position.

There isn't a single Progenitor B.O.W. in the series, as they cannot actually exist. The T-virus was made because of this problem. The closest to a Progenitor B.O.W. in the series is the administration of Progenitor to an already T-virus B.O.W. That resulted in the Licker Beta, and there were practically no changes aside from the ability to fuck.

Notice how Progenitor is only useful when its combined with something else? Yeah.

News Bot, I think their comments are towards me. Actually, I didn't say Zero screwed canon, I said it screwed the plot, which it did. It added new plot holes, new really far-fetched events and gave almost no answers to old questions.

Now, please tell me at least one source of P Crawlers origins that says they are made using genetic engineering, except Archives. Official, canon source.

First successful cloning was done in 1963 in China by Tong Dizhou. Then in 1986 in Soviet Union(cloned mice). And you say 1991 is a stretch for a fictional uber technically advanced mega corporation who mastered Cryosleep in late 1970s? And don't forget when Ashford created Alexia and Alfred. He used non-existent highly advanced technology.

And now...
"BOW report.
Research to date has shown that when the PROGENITOR virus is administrated to living organisms, VIOLENT CELLULAR CHANGES cause a breakdown in the system. Furthermore, no satisfactory method has been found to control the organisms for use as weapons. Clearly, greater coordination at the cellular level is essential to enable further growth. I conducted a number of experiments in an effort to find a breakthrough.

This is my report:

Insecta
Perhaps because these ancient animals have been genetically stable for millennia, when administered with the PROGENITOR virus they exhibit only explosive, high-energy growth and increased aggressiveness. It is extremely difficult to envision using them as a B.O.W... (P Crawler anyone?)

Amphibia
Injecting a frog with the virus resulted in an increase in leaping power and abnormal tongue growth. However, no change in mental ability was observed. Furthermore, an abnormal appetite resulted in the test subject randomly attacking all moving objects. Usefulness for B.O.W. is limited. (lurker anyone?)

Mammalia
The PROGENITOR virus was merged with a monkey's cellular DNA resulting in increased fertility. The resulting young exhibited improved aggressiveness and some increased mental capacity. (As a side effect, visual power was lost, but this was offset by an improvement in hearing ability.) However, they were unsatisfactory as weapons. It does seem that no progress can be made without making humans the base organism.(Eliminator anyone?)"

I also believe that Marcus Leeches are Progenitor creatures too. He injected them with P and got T. This is my theory only. He says T was created by combining Leech DNA with Progenitor virus. I always thought that he experimented on Leeches among other animals and after injection of P he found that a new virus appeared in their system(kinda like G in Lisa). That also explains why Leeches in RE Outbreak are different. These are pure T Leeches while Marcus's Leeches are Progenitor creatures. Both are T-virus hosts, but have different properties and physiology. Perhaps even different T-virus strains.

[GEORGE TREVOR]

I cannot agree with my fellow RE friend above, and Newsbot is right - James Marcus used the Progenitor as a base element, but no BOWs were created JUST from this base alone - It was not until Umbrella was founded that Marcus utalised his base discovery by MIXING it with other virus elements to create the effective virus, i.e T-virus, for BOW creation. It was then, after some time that Marcus used Progenitor INCONJUNCTION with the T-virus to form the FIRST BASIS of ALL BOW development - hence the first & original BOW was a mix of both Progenitor & T-virus. Progenotir ALONE does not create an effective BOW

[BahamutRetsu]

So from this file I came to conclusion... Progenitor virus does cause mutations but limited and primitive like physiological changes of small scale(P Crawlers show size and composition changes. They are still very cockroach looking). That also explains why Rebecca didn't get T-virus from Eliminator bite. Cuz it only has Progenitor virus which acts differently in humans. Perhaps Progenitor virus hosts can't transmit it to other creatures through saliva or bites. It also has less adherence rate in Humans sometimes killling them, and sometimes just plain doing nothing to them.

And Lurker, Eliminator and P Crawlers were not crawling there for 20 years. They, just like Eliminator, were released by Marcus to hamper Billy's/Rebecca's progress. How long they were in cages I don't know. He could've created "new" ones after his "rebirth". We don't know how long Progenitor virus hosts can live.

I'm sure Marcus didn't drop all Progenitor virus research. Even In RE5 Tricell and Wesker were still researching it and had interest in it.

Another proof(at least to me) of RE Zero's file validity, is that he later begun experimenting on Humans with P virus. Rebecca saw the bodies in Marcus's Church laboratory. They could be dead T-virus zombies but I think these are unlucky P-virus victims. And Lisa is, in part, a P-virus creature. And Wesker is probably a 100% P-virus creature. They were injected by different P-virus strains but nevertheless it IS a Progenitor virus. And both had physiological changes. Another proof... From that file we know that Eliminators had improved fertility. Then we get Lickers who after Injection of P-virus get sex drive. Evolution defines P-virus. I always thought of it as a sort of a wicked Evolution booster. That is it causes changes which could happen after long years of evolution in these animals, more or less. T-virus, on the other hand, cause more violent mutations which has huge military potential, hence the wish to upgrade P-virus. Not because it has 0% mutation rate by itself, but because its mutations are primitive and have limitied use. Look at Marcus's Leeches. Size improvement, highly advanced collective intelligent, mouth with teeth to eat, working eye. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution under appropriate conditions could cause that. T-virus Leeches in Outbreak didn't change form much, they still suck blood and have same form/size, except for the Queen. The Queen is a Tyrant analogue among Leeches. It's still not that advanced as Marcus's Leeches in terms of physiology.

And yes, I do know that a growth record file in 0 says they begun to mutate after after T-virus administration not P-virus. I think it's both. P-virus was administered first, followed by T-Virus injections. It is a speculation but it doesn't go against any files. From RE5 we know that P-virus and T-Virus can exist in one system(Licker Beta) with different results from if it was just a T-virus infection. That's why by my theory Leeches in RE0 are different from Outbreak ones.

[BahamutRetsu]

I cannot agree with my fellow RE friend above, and Newsbot is right - James Marcus used the Progenitor as a base element, but no BOWs were created JUST from this base alone - It was not until Umbrella was founded that Marcus utalised his base discovery by MIXING it with other virus elements to create the effective virus, i.e T-virus, for BOW creation. It was then, after some time that Marcus used Progenitor INCONJUNCTION with the T-virus to form the FIRST BASIS of ALL BOW development - hence the first & original BOW was a mix of both Progenitor & T-virus. Progenotir ALONE does not create an effective BOW

Ok, but this goes against canon file. And if we can change info in one file as we wish, let's do it in all files. Great! T-Virus is actually a G-virus! G-virus has no vaccine! Umbrells was founded in 1932! Tyrant is Rebecca! ... That's what we will get by ignoring canon files. One huge pile of GPT viruses. All wishes and theories come true.

And News Bot, you say Archives is written by developers, that's why you trust it... And RE Zero files are written by Silent Hill fans or what? Your beloved Archives have this same file, uncorrected, in its original form. They contradict themselves in one book already.

[News Bot]

Ok, but this goes against canon file.

Yeah sorry, the files in the games (especially the English files) aren't exactly magical. Federal Police Department? Federal Council?

And News Bot, you say Archives is written by developers, that's why you trust it... And RE Zero files are written by Silent Hill fans or what? Your beloved Archives have this same file, uncorrected, in its original form. They contradict themselves in one book already.

You say this with the belief that I use the Resident Evil Archives.

[BahamutRetsu]

Yeah sorry, the files in the games (especially the English files) aren't exactly magical. Federal Police Department? Federal Council?



You say this with the belief that I use the Resident Evil Archives.

And RE Archives, especially in English, are magical? And I double checked the RE Zero file in Japanase version. It translates as Mother virus, so it wasn't an error in English game translation. It was put there intentionally by Japanase developers. They meant it in BOW report.

[GEORGE TREVOR]

I would always agree regarding the total importance of canon law but my comments on the Progenitor do not contradict the file you correctly refer to, or do they suggest a desire to see the ridiculous ruin the series' integrity - I said that no EFFECTIVE BOW can be created with the Progenitor alone, not that it didnt cause ANY biological changes.

[News Bot]

And RE Archives, especially in English, are magical?

You say this with the belief that I use the Resident Evil Archives.

It translates as Mother virus, so it wasn't an error in English game translation. It was put there intentionally by Japanase developers. They meant it in BOW report.

Uhh, no. Mother and Progenitor use the exact same Japanese characters because they mean the exact same thing. They are virtually interchangeable. The real name for the virus is Progenitor, while Mother is a mistranslation. The English RE2 EX Files and CV files in particular were both mistranslated in this manner.

The use of Progenitor in that file is a mistake. Pure and simple.

[BahamutRetsu]

Uhh, no. Mother and Progenitor use the exact same Japanese characters because they mean the exact same thing. They are virtually interchangeable. The real name for the virus is Progenitor, while Mother is a mistranslation. The English RE2 EX Files and CV files in particular were both mistranslated in this manner.

The use of Progenitor in that file is a mistake. Pure and simple.

That's what YOU think. Fine by me. And I think the use of P-virus in that file is NOT a mistake.

I NEVER said Mother and P-virus are different viruses. What I mean is that this file has a word Mother virus in Japanase game and Progenitor virus is US version. The point is(them been one and the same) that it has no mention of T-virus in the file AT ALL. I wasn't pointing to and could care less about Mother/Progenitor mistranslation. There's practically no difference in meaning.

And 5TH SURVIVOR, sorry I misunderstood you. I agree no effective B.O.W was ever made with Progenitor, but ineffective B.O.Ws were made by it. I was mislead by the fact that you said you agree with News Bot and he said "There isn't a single Progenitor B.O.W. in the series, as they cannot actually exist.".

[News Bot]

What I mean is that this file has a word Mother virus in Japanase game and Progenitor virus is US version.

Yeah, wrong. They are the exact same word in Japanese. The same characters represent them. You can interpret them as different words. Founder, Primogenitor and Clay are a few more that fall under the same characters. I'm the one who said there was no difference in their meaning. The original intention and use of the Japanese text was PROGENITOR. Not MOTHER. The developers (Jun Takeuchi in particular) all use Progenitor, and they made it very clear in an interview that Mother/Founder etc were mistranslations because the ones translating the games weren't well-versed in the original meaning and intentions. Thats why you get shit like Federal Council and Federal Police Department for what is actually the Senate and Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Japanese text. And considering the Japanese text in the guides and official site AND Archives for the Lurker, Eliminator and Plague Crawler all say that they were created with the T-virus, I am inclined to take those over one simple file which is quite clearly an utter mistake.

Many sources > one source.

but ineffective B.O.Ws were made by it

Nope. Why would Umbrella make ineffective Eliminators some 20-30 years after? Why would Eliminators even be alive in the Training Facility 20-30 years after they were made? ZOMBIES die eventually from lack of food, why the fuck would Eliminators be an exception when there is no food for them either? Do you know how an increased metabolism works?

At most, Marcus tested Progenitor on those animals. But the animals mentioned in the file are not the Lurker, Eliminator and Plague Crawler. Then he did more tests on the same animals later after developing the T-virus. That file was written pre-1977, meaning that the fucking things would have been crawling the facility for more than 20 years. Excuse me if I find that just a little bit ridiculous.

[BahamutRetsu]

Yeah, wrong. They are the exact same word in Japanese. The same characters represent them. You can interpret them as different words. Founder, Primogenitor and Clay are a few more that fall under the same characters. I'm the one who said there was no difference in their meaning. The original intention and use of the Japanese text was PROGENITOR. Not MOTHER. The developers (Jun Takeuchi in particular) all use Progenitor, and they made it very clear in an interview that Mother/Founder etc were mistranslations because the ones translating the games weren't well-versed in the original meaning and intentions. Thats why you get shit like Federal Council and Federal Police Department for what is actually the Senate and Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Japanese text. And considering the Japanese text in the guides and official site AND Archives for the Lurker, Eliminator and Plague Crawler all say that they were created with the T-virus, I am inclined to take those over one simple file which is quite clearly an utter mistake.

Many sources > one source.



Nope. Why would Umbrella make ineffective Eliminators some 20-30 years after? Why would Eliminators even be alive in the Training Facility 20-30 years after they were made? ZOMBIES die eventually from lack of food, why the fuck would Eliminators be an exception when there is no food for them either? Do you know how an increased metabolism works?

At most, Marcus tested Progenitor on those animals. But the animals mentioned in the file are not the Lurker, Eliminator and Plague Crawler. Then he did more tests on the same animals later after developing the T-virus. That file was written pre-1977, meaning that the fucking things would have been crawling the facility for more than 20 years. Excuse me if I find that just a little bit ridiculous.

Progenitor or Mother, who cares? What's important is what it is. We know it's the same thing.

And one file in main canon game > Archives + official website + guides.

Metabolism? lol It's fucking RE man. Everything's possible. Now just how can you explain the presence of Eliminators in RE Zero? In that CG scene we see how Marcus releases em from cages. Caged Eliminators surviving 10 or 20 years is ridiculous, BUT Eliminators can probably multiply, as are Lurkers and Plague Crawlers. That might explain it. Lickers Beta did survive by multiplying in RE5. Or you have a theory that explains the presence of a really outdated B.O.W. as Eliminator in 1998?

Oh and Eliminator and Lurker and probably Plague Crawlers ARE the B.O.Ws from that report. Description fits perfectly. Eliminators are blind, they have so obviously WHITE eyes. They ARE blind. Eliminators ARE the creatures from B.O.W report.

EDIT - I checked Archives about Plague Crawlers. Apart from their T-virus origins it says that they have founded colonies. It means they can multiply. Explains how they survived for 10 or 20 years.

Also the Archives say Eliminator was made by Marcus. It means at least in 1988. How did it survive 10 years? My explanation is simple. By multiplying, as did Lurkers and Plague Crawlers.

[News Bot]

Progenitor or Mother, who cares? What's important is what it is. We know it's the same thing.

Why the fuck did you bring it up then like it meant something?

And one file in main canon game > Archives + official website + guides.

Sorry, no. The guides are the definitive sources of information, as they contain information not even included in the games. If they correct something in a single shit file in one of the games, they take precedence. They are written by the developers, and are used as references by later developers. Archives is a collection of information from the guides of each and every game (though it is far from complete). The BSAA website tells every little detail of the backstory to RE5, including the inner workings of the BSAA. It gives us dates for Umbrella's dissolution and reveals Umbrella Japan Co. Ltd. It is 100% canon, just like the guides and Archives. All of the silly fucking errors you've talked about are the fault of BradyGames, they are not there in the original Biohazard Archives.

Oh and Eliminator and Lurker and probably Plague Crawlers ARE the B.O.Ws from that report.

No they aren't.

BUT Eliminators can probably multiply

Yes I am sure they can fuck without energy. There is nobody alive in the facility to feed them. And they are caged.

I checked Archives about Plague Crawlers. Apart from their T-virus origins it says that they have founded colonies.

Oh wow, you're picking and choosing from Archives now. Way to undermine your own argument.

Also the Archives say Eliminator was made by Marcus. It means at least in 1988. How did it survive 10 years? My explanation is simple. By multiplying, as did Lurkers and Plague Crawlers.

Marcus was focused on the T-virus by 1988. He dropped Progenitor research completely in January 1977. Even if the Eliminators did breed, their infants would die off quite quickly considering there is no food. Try again.

I'm willing to accept the explanation that the creatures described in the B.O.W. Report were indeed administered Progenitor, and are the precursors to the Lurker, Eliminators and Plague Crawlers. But they are not the creatures seen in Zero. End of story, goddamn.

Progenitor cannot create B.O.W.s, this was the ENTIRE reason the T-virus was made. The T-virus wouldn't exist if the Lurkers, Eliminators and Plague Crawlers were created through Progenitor as that would mean that Progenitor was already capable of producing B.O.W.s. The entire point behind the B.O.W. Report was that it was UNSUITABLE for creating B.O.W.s.

Again, why would Marcus mention the part about humans being most compatible when they fucking die? Explain that or stop arguing because you are picking and choosing everything now.

[BahamutRetsu]

Why the fuck did you bring it up then like it meant something?



Sorry, no. The guides are the definitive sources of information, as they contain information not even included in the games. If they correct something in a single shit file in one of the games, they take precedence. They are written by the developers, and are used as references by later developers. Archives is a collection of information from the guides of each and every game (though it is far from complete). The BSAA website tells every little detail of the backstory to RE5, including the inner workings of the BSAA. It gives us dates for Umbrella's dissolution and reveals Umbrella Japan Co. Ltd. It is 100% canon, just like the guides and Archives. All of the silly fucking errors you've talked about are the fault of BradyGames, they are not there in the original Biohazard Archives.



No they aren't.



Yes I am sure they can fuck without energy. There is nobody alive in the facility to feed them. And they are caged.



Oh wow, you're picking and choosing from Archives now. Way to undermine your own argument.



Marcus was focused on the T-virus by 1988. He dropped Progenitor research completely in January 1977. Even if the Eliminators did breed, their infants would die off quite quickly considering there is no food. Try again.

I'm willing to accept the explanation that the creatures described in the B.O.W. Report were indeed administered Progenitor, and are the precursors to the Lurker, Eliminators and Plague Crawlers. But they are not the creatures seen in Zero. End of story, goddamn.

Progenitor cannot create B.O.W.s, this was the ENTIRE reason the T-virus was made. The T-virus wouldn't exist if the Lurkers, Eliminators and Plague Crawlers were created through Progenitor as that would mean that Progenitor was already capable of producing B.O.W.s. The entire point behind the B.O.W. Report was that it was UNSUITABLE for creating B.O.W.s.

Again, why would Marcus mention the part about humans being most compatible when they fucking die? Explain that or stop arguing because you are picking and choosing everything now.

First of all, you brought it up. That shit about Mother/Progenitor difference. I ONLY said that Japanese version of the game has Mother virus and US version Progenitor virus, in this file. I said this to point that the original Japanese file in Japanese RE Zero has Progenitor/Mother virus and not T-virus. Cuz if it said T and US Zero file said Progenitor, I wouldn't be so certain about B.O.W. report.

I do think that saying that Eliminators, Lurkers and Plague Crawlers are T-virus creatures is a mistake. And it says so in Japanese RE Archives. As for websites, I NEVER said they were not canon. I said I don't trust em much, especially the US ones. It doesn't mean they are wrong but they do tend to have mistakes that contradict main games. And quiet often those sites are NOT made by developers, and if they are, they usually don't take it as serious as writing a file for a main game... Which leads to mistakes.

No, they ARE the ones from report.

Some Eliminators were caged but some could have escaped. You can't know that for sure.
So they can fuck with energy.

I didn't undermine my own argument. I NEVER said Archives were 100% not canon or faulty. They are a great source of some info, but I think 2%of it is so wrong and contradict files from main games.

As I said before I think there still was a point in making T, even if P could create B.O.W.s. BIG fucking point. IMPROVEMENT. That's why they made G and TG. They want to make better B.O.Ws. Progenitor leads to VERY bad results. The whole reason for making T is in this same file. This file shows how retarded Progenitor virus B.O.Ws are. It requires more cellular stability as Marcus says. Without improvement Umbrella could never create something as awesome as T-0.9.2 or Nemesis ot T-0400tp. And we'd still be in 15th century.

That was his logical conclusion and he was right. I think he didn't know that humans would die after Progenitor virus infection because he didn't experiment on people yet. And it was logical to conclude. After all humans are smarter then apes, and if it worked on them, why not on humans?

And don't forget, as there are different strains of T-virus there could be different strains of Progenitor virus. Maybe the original Progenitor virus had no power to mutate visibly, but it's ALTERED strains very well could. For example the one used on Wesker or Lisa and Jessica.