A timeline of RE15's history and the hunt for it (1996-2013)

[News Bot]

You missed the intention of my post completely. Please double back and re-read.

Things like backgrounds, voice acting and placement of enemies/items are fickle and are not huge changes that change the game very much. "Tiny other differences" mean very little in the grand scheme of things. 40% is very much the foundation of the game. If you expected the Complete build to be dramatically different aside from being, as I said, "more complete", your expectations are unfounded.

Backgrounds in particular were drawn and mapped out in the game plan. Then the modeler created them based on those preordained sketches. The tiny changes they make to them later are like a pebble in the sea. Likewise with the dialogue and event scenes, which go hand-in-hand with locations. These were all decided early on. 40% is close to the start of the "coming together" period where everything they had planned was actually being implemented, but the 40% build has almost all major elements already incorporated (but broken/incomplete). Again, it's a foundation. The Complete build is obviously more finished and polished. It's just that this polish didn't make it shine or seem much different from the older builds, and that's the main reason it was dumped.

(I'm very tired so I may not be explaining very well, apologies)

[Kegluneq]

There isn't much difference between the "40%" build and the "Complete" build. Sure, overall it's literally more "complete", but that doesn't speak at all for its quality. The "Complete" version is the point where they decided that it wasn't going to end up very good. Mikami went with your line of thinking ("oh, time will fix it") and when he saw the near-finished result he didn't like it. Nor did anyone else.

I did not say a thing about its quality. In far, I was careful enough when I picked my words and said that such build would have not indicated if it were superior to retail BH2 (which I don't think it would, but then again BH2 had done nothing substantial aside from the way it presented its story and narrative - Dual Shock is a different story though - so it's up the player's preferences to decide that). There is no doubt that the final build would have a lot more content than the PSM build, though. Not a lot of changes (if at all) would exist in the game engine, but a lot of other issues I addressed would have been drastically changed by this iteration.

Basically, not a lot (or anything) was changed between 40% and Complete. They had the game plan set out at that point and were just focused on getting it done through grunt work. All substantial creative decisions were pretty much set in stone by then. It just didn't come together well.

You don't have a clue about what you're talking about. There are plenty of changes made from the PSM build to the final build. A lot of them actually. New locations had been added, new cutscenes had been created, voice-acting was already incorporated, enemy placement was added or changed, item placement was added or changed, weapons that were previously not working were now functional, puzzles were expected to be in place, some pre-rendered backgrounds were remodeled and bits of tiny other differences were also present. Consider that I'm basing all of this off public footage. I'm certain there's a lot more missing here which could be detailed had we at least some short of graphical walkthrough in video form.

"Unfounded expectations" is 1.5 in a nutshell, really.

Not at all. You cannot begin to comprehend what my expectations are, therefore you cannot call them unfounded. If you think I'm preaching that the final build would vastly outmatch the retail product, or that we're see some drastic change in the skeleton of BH2 Prototype, the point is going above your head.

Nonetheless, it's not up to you, or anything else, to decide what expectations people should have of the final build. Kamiya and Mikami have expressed their view on it. That doesn't necessarily mean those statements should form opinions without having played the actual thing.

[Carnivol]

I actually watched that again recently and i dunno what you're talking about, it's a hoot and a half

Hoot and a half? Hah! More like 100% gibbon
(Please get the reference )

[News Bot]

The 40% build was never expected to be something out of extraordinary. Aside from the game-engine, it was suspected to be experimental in regards to stage progression, combat balance, puzzle placement and general layout. That it contained some cutscenes, some which extend to the last stages of the game was surprising, to say the least. If anything, people created unfounded expectations due to the information provided by the PSM owner and its video footage.

The build that has been leaked (albeit in a modified form) is far from the complete build (which I assume you're referring to the one present in bioflames.com screenshots and the complete disc video footage). Consider the following. From September to November, Capcom made a great leap in terms of game developing with BH1.5. A lot of backgrounds were added, enemy models and placement was somewhat stable enough to give them a good idea of what needed to be tweaked, most of the character models were made, even if in a rudimentary form, a lot of cutscenes have been created to get a general feel of the narrative and many features have been introduced. If they accomplished all of this from September to November, can you imagine what they managed to do in the following two months, when they were already comfortable with the development of it? Or rather, let me put it this way. Had you played the TGS build (the one with Leon in his civilian clothes) and then two months later had the chance to play the PSM build, would you not be astonished by the amount of content that had been made in such little time?

If the final build is ever leaked, I can guarantee you that this leak will pale in comparison. It does not mean that will be superior to retail by any means, but you will get a very functional beta that would most likely play in the way that was intended. This build that leaked? It's pretty much the draft coming to life without any kind of polish or refinement.

You give the game far too much credit.

There isn't much difference between the "40%" build and the "Complete" build. Sure, overall it's literally more "complete", but that doesn't speak at all for its quality. The "Complete" version is the point where they decided that it wasn't going to end up very good. Mikami went with your line of thinking ("oh, time will fix it") and when he saw the near-finished result he didn't like it. Nor did anyone else.

Basically, not a lot (or anything) was changed between 40% and Complete. They had the game plan set out at that point and were just focused on getting it done through grunt work. All substantial creative decisions were pretty much set in stone by then. It just didn't come together well.

"Unfounded expectations" is 1.5 in a nutshell, really.

[rewak]

I'll forever make sure you don't forget that you recommended the absolute shittiest movie I've ever seen my entire life and I hope for you to one day get an appropriate punishment for said movie recommendation. So that's at least one 10+ year old grudge that shall haunt you until the day I feel you've felt appropriate suffering!

I actually watched that again recently and i dunno what you're talking about, it's a hoot and a half

[Rick Hunter]

Had you played the TGS build (the one with Leon in his civilian clothes) and then two months later had the chance to play the PSM build, would you not be astonished by the amount of content that had been made in such little time?

We barely know anything about that build though.

[Eteponge]

The 40% build was never expected to be something out of extraordinary.

I fully agree, and that's the conclusion any sane person would make. All I was saying in my post you quoted was that the crazed purists the past few months (since the release of the MZD Build) have raised a silly conspiracy theory that the pure build has all sorts of extra content than the MZD Build, and that IGAS purposely hide a bunch of extra rooms, cutscenes, and items, etc, which is ridiculous. They put the 40% build on a pedestal and acted as though IGAS must have removed and hidden a bunch of extra vanilla content.

[Kegluneq]

Your videos of a full playthrough of the Pure Build prove once and for all that the RE 123 conspiracy purist were insane. The pure build is exactly what I and many other reasonable people here always thought it was, far more incomplete than the MZD Build. The Purist tried to get everyone to believe the crazed conspiracy that the Pure Build was somehow faaar more complete than the MZD Build and had tons and tons of extra content, hidden rooms, cutscenes, items, and content that "teh ebil IGAS" was hiding from us. They are probably hiding their faces in their robes now.

The 40% build was never expected to be something out of extraordinary. Aside from the game-engine, it was suspected to be experimental in regards to stage progression, combat balance, puzzle placement and general layout. That it contained some cutscenes, some which extend to the last stages of the game was surprising, to say the least. If anything, people created unfounded expectations due to the information provided by the PSM owner and its video footage.

It wouldn't surprise me if most people thought that the complete build was the only/most circulated build and could be played from start to finish almost like any other game. But when the real thing dropped, and some truths came to light the game was much further from what many originally anticipated. And those beliefs don't easily change, so the natural reaction would be to believe that many assets were withheld intentionally when it was simply not there in the first place.

All in all, I believe that many of us who wanted "1.5 the game" will be greatly pleased with the IGAS release with a handful ever in pursuit of the final build for "purity" or completion's sake. Regardless if the discrepancies from the IGAS release and final build are subtle at best. But to have 1.5 and play it like I would any other classic RE...that's the dream come true right there.

The build that has been leaked (albeit in a modified form) is far from the complete build (which I assume you're referring to the one present in bioflames.com screenshots and the complete disc video footage). Consider the following. From September to November, Capcom made a great leap in terms of game developing with BH1.5. A lot of backgrounds were added, enemy models and placement was somewhat stable enough to give them a good idea of what needed to be tweaked, most of the character models were made, even if in a rudimentary form, a lot of cutscenes have been created to get a general feel of the narrative and many features have been introduced. If they accomplished all of this from September to November, can you imagine what they managed to do in the following two months, when they were already comfortable with the development of it? Or rather, let me put it this way. Had you played the TGS build (the one with Leon in his civilian clothes) and then two months later had the chance to play the PSM build, would you not be astonished by the amount of content that had been made in such little time?

If the final build is ever leaked, I can guarantee you that this leak will pale in comparison. It does not mean that will be superior to retail by any means, but you will get a very functional beta that would most likely play in the way that was intended. This build that leaked? It's pretty much the draft coming to life without any kind of polish or refinement.

[Darkness]

Or we could wait for the bioflames build to leak.
But you know what would happen before that?


Congress passes a useful, and fair bill.
World Peace.
A funny new episode of family guy.
Music on MTV.
Something good comes out of new jersey.

[Graco]

It wouldn't surprise me if most people thought that the complete build was the only/most circulated build and could be played from start to finish almost like any other game. But when the real thing dropped, and some truths came to light the game was much further from what many originally anticipated. And those beliefs don't easily change, so the natural reaction would be to believe that many assets were withheld intentionally when it was simply not there in the first place.

All in all, I believe that many of us who wanted "1.5 the game" will be greatly pleased with the IGAS release with a handful ever in pursuit of the final build for "purity" or completion's sake. Regardless if the discrepancies from the IGAS release and final build are subtle at best. But to have 1.5 and play it like I would any other classic RE...that's the dream come true right there.

[Rick Hunter]

It's not a surprise, since the Gman incident and the leak of the wip build we knew what to expect. But had someone told me about that back in 2007 I might not have believed it. We were way too hyped to imagine it was barely playable. We would have been super disappointed by a normal leak and no team working on it to restore it and make it playable.

[Eteponge]

Your videos of a full playthrough of the Pure Build prove once and for all that the RE 123 conspiracy purist were insane. The pure build is exactly what I and many other reasonable people here always thought it was, far more incomplete than the MZD Build. The Purist tried to get everyone to believe the crazed conspiracy that the Pure Build was somehow faaar more complete than the MZD Build and had tons and tons of extra content, hidden rooms, cutscenes, items, and content that "teh ebil IGAS" was hiding from us. They are probably hiding their faces in their robes now.

[RMandel]

Well, I"m not going to reveal their identities, so they can rest easy on that. I may not agree or be particularly happy with certain things, but I still respect the Team's original intentions - and I'm a fan of D.Birkin's coding abilities, too. I'm also not releasing any more that what I have, either - save for anything else others have since shared with me (or might later) that they want released. I owe the Team that much - for D.Birkin's sake, if nothing else. The "data dump" is pretty much over, folks. All the dirty laundry that's going to be aired (as far as I know) HAS been aired. Just wash it and hang it on the clothesline to dry ....

That's also why I left the matter of THAT still up to them. The videos were basically to scotch further behind-the-scenes sales - to let the uninformed know what they're really getting. If THAT is still a matter of must-have after watching those ... well, c'est la vie. Most of us here already knew what to expect, so there's almost no surprises for us in them.

Believe it or not, I'm waiting for the RE15 Trial Edition, too. Dunno when I'll find the time to play it with this new job coming up and all, but I'll probably make the time somewhere. Even if, as some people claim, it IS a "bastard build." Hell - with D.Birkin's abilities, it'll be the best freakin' "bastard build" of RE15 yet made. Well worth the look, IMHO. Confucius was a bastard too, you know. -_^

Only five days of freedom left ... *sigh* .... Later.

[Rick Hunter]

Yeah, that story. It's interesting because it "proves" that something doesn't necessarily leak just because a few people have access to it.

I don't think IGAS would have any reason to get mad as long as Mandel doesn't talk about their respective identities. It's kinda sad that they haven't been able to keep a low profile when you think that some people had it for more than a decade and we pretty much never heard from them. But managing a team is not the same as being a private collector, so it's understandable.

Anyway, it's far from over. Still very impatient to see the final result of that restoration, and the final build might still be hiding somewhere

[Eteponge]

Once it's leaked, it's leaked. Nothing really surprising.

What I find interesting is that old story of that guy having a copy and sharing it with two admins. And it's unlikely to be linked to the curator, since he apparently got it from a different source.

You mean my own personal encounter? Yeah, back in 1999 or 2000, #psxtrade on IRC, a guy screen named AlRooker had the game, wouldn't trade it to me, but I received screenshots back then of the beginning RPD rooms and the character select screen being played on a real TV. It was initially an OP in the channel and a channel regular who both contacted me separately and told me that this AlRooker guy was a friend of theirs and had sent them a copy of RE 1.5, but neither of them would trade it, but they gave me his email address, and he himself would sometimes log into the channel. He basically taunted me with the screenshots when I asked for proof, but would not send me a copy. I pestered the other two in the channel for a few months to give me a copy, but they refused, and eventually started ignoring me outright. One of the two claimed he was a big RE fan, but he clearly never leaked it.