Will future Resident Evil tiltes return to survival horror?

[Guest]

Yup really. Complete with concept art, developer's quotes and accurate translations. You know, evidence. But those obviously cannot compare to glitches, copy and pasted text and basically pulling explanations out of your ass.

But you've already said you refuse to believe which is fine and good for you. You can go now.

"Developer's quotes" that came out after the game's success and planning of sequels.
"Accurate translations" by taking them out of context.
"Concept art" that doesn't exist, I don't recall ever seeing one of Wesker surviving the game, please enlighten me with your wisdom.

[Sly]

Yes, it's annoying that BIO1 doesn't have a canon, but why people continue to treat it like gospel is baffling.

You know what's really baffling ? It's that Wesker's fate is ambiguous only in REmake, where he actually escapes the mansion in Jill's good ending. That was not the case in the original, but then REmake arrives, and while we already know from WR the canon ending is the one where he gets impaled by the Tyrant, ONLY THEN, they create a real, concrete and believable escape opportunity for him. That really doesn't make sense when you think about it. They could have done exactly the same thing in the original, but they did not. Why did they have to put his corpse in the power room in the first place, an area where you don't even need to go to at that point in the game, if they wanted the player to think his fate was ambiguous ?

Either way, he died in RE1, there's nothing to talk about, he openly says so himself remember ? "I died once..."
+ what Rombie says.

Yeah, but in 2000 (or more specifically Dec 1999 when it became apparent to people online that he was in CV) when it did happen you had the opposite because almost everyone was like 'WTF, he died' because that was the expected outcome in the community (with the exception of the people who kept backing that RE2 file with the guy hanging around the sewers who were like ' i f**king said he was still alive!' lol)

Hey I've seen guys being all "WTF Barry in REV2 ? He died in RE1 !" so what do you know...

[TheBatMan]

"Developer's quotes" that came out after the game's success and planning of sequels.
"Accurate translations" by taking them out of context.
"Concept art" that doesn't exist, I don't recall ever seeing one of Wesker surviving the game, please enlighten me with your wisdom.

Yes developer's quotes that came out during the planning of sequels when they were considering bringing the character back. Where else would these developer's quotes come from exactly?

How is 'He's unconscious' taking it out of context? You're the one who says he is 'dead with a capital D.' That's not what unconscious means.

I never said anything about concept art showing Wesker surviving the game. Now who is taking things out of context?

@Sly, the WTF aspect of the announcement of his return to the series may not have been as WTF had the correct translation been used in the first place. Until CV and Wesker's Report were released, we wouldn't know what the canon answer would be, therefore everyone would have said "oh well, he must have escaped from the power room..." and suddenly it's not as far fetched.


Wesker escaping the lab alive in Remake may have been Capcom trying to recreate the power room scenario but make it more obvious this time that he did survive. Who knows? Speculation. But again, people go on about the canon being Wesker dying and resurrected by a virus, so why bother having a branching scenario where this time Wesker definitely does escape the mansion alive? Why not just have him dead in the power room? Cos that is what happened in the original right? Oh, wait...

[Guest]

*GASP* IT'S THREE DOTS OF DIFFERENCE!!! THAT'S ENOUGH FOR A PHRASE TO MEAN SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, GUYS!!! HE'S NOT DEAD. SURE, HE JUST GOT STABBED AND THERE'S BLOOD ALL OVER HIM, BUT THERE'S A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "HE'S DEAD" AND "HE'S UNCONSCIOUS" IN ONLY THREE DOTS OF JAPANESE LANGUAGE. YOU SEE, HE'S UNCONSCIOUS AND HIS FATE IS AMBIGUOS BECAUSE I SAID SO!!! DO NOT QUESTION MY INCREDIBLE TRANSLATING POWER!!!

Really, I'm starting to think Google Translator would do better than you.

EDIT

I just went into Google Translator, and asked it to translate the text.
Answer: "That's a tragic death!". Wow, even Google Translator is better than you.

[Burt Mustin]

To be fair, the accident mentioned in RE1 does not necessarily negate Marcus' involvement. Marcus could have caused the accident in the lab without anyone noticing. That fits well with the fact that the scientists there were not infected with Marcus' strain.

Yep, and to be fair, you're right. Went through the 0 cutscenes again (eh...bleh) and indeed when compared to the text in that file in '1', you could see how the crease was open to take. Like a few others, I'm not fond of how they went about this, but that wasn't the point regardless.

There were no immediate plans for Wesker to return again in a sequel at the time of BIO1. However, as stated by Mikami, they deliberately left his fate open. People don't know that BIO1 is a pretty unfinished game that was pretty rushed towards the later stages of development.

Listening to that ep. 23 podcast, I got the impression from Welsh that indeed, at no point during 1 production, was there as much a scintilla of suggestion from anyone he spoke with that Wesker was to survive, in any future iteration. I understand he likely hasn't spoken with Mikami personally, but I do wonder if that late 96' interview he's quoted from is him attempting to cover all possible bases now knowing a sequel/larger franchise was on the horizon. Also, concerning that interview...

In a interview with Japanese magazine Famicom Tsushin, Capcom development chief Yoshiki Okamoto revealed some of theire future (and past) plans for the Bio Hazard series. Before Capcom began developing Bio Hazard 2 they began production on Bio Hazard: Dash, a semi-sequel to Bio Hazard.

Here's the thing about that- in same podcast, Welsh states that Dash was unknown to every Dev he spoke with, and that the entire team shifted almost immediately to working on 2 (1.5) after 1's completion.

Either he has incomplete (or even incorrect) information, or, it would seem that whether it be the producer (Okamoto) or the director himself (Mikami) that on occasion, these guys bend the truth of what was in reality occurring at the time. And not in some giant way or anything...but enough all these years later to invigorate the lively discussion seen on this thread.


My own thoughts on future SH-based RE games-- I wouldn't mind one last really good, possibly even a great SH-heavy game. It feels to me as though they keep shocking and revitalizing a patient who has long turned into something more changed yet ordinary...branching into side-stories with expanding virus' and bio-weapons that simply aren't as interesting as once were. Let the main canon games go out with a bang. For me it's ironic that one of the first lines you read in the franchise, 'mere image of his former self', is what has happened to the franchise itself. Bring Iwao back for some poetic justice. Who knows, perhaps remaster sales will inch this to being more reality than fantasy for the future.

[Grem]

MichelleRockz : LOL, that's what I call fact checking. Thank you.

That's pretty clear now. Wesker was dead in RE1, end of story.

[News Bot]

Woah, woah, hold up here.

First, Wesker's death alone is proof things will be modified, original game with canon or not. Any statements made about his living or not via the original game are moot simply because regardless of scenario, canon, and changes... Wesker dies in every version because that's how it's explained. The original has him die in most of the endings, with one possible questionable ending. The later series still 'kills' him and resurrects him through a (middlingly convoluted) back story. You're arguing that 'Wesker wasn't dead in 1 because it had no canon' is a non-point because after when the series did, it still had him die at the hands of the Tyrant anyway meaning the original game's explanation that most people understood - that he was killed - was true.

So you guys are sitting there talking about translations, developer comments, lack of consistent in-game canon, and pools of blood are missing the bigger point. If there was never any question to his 'survival' in the first place then there wouldn't be a need for explanation to his survival in the first place in later games (and outside official materials) either - he just would be alive. So they had to change events surrounding it to explain him coming back... The fact they had to do this automatically makes it a retcon via required explanation. You can argue that all you want but it doesn't change what it is.

It's certainly neither just 'plain exposition' like Zero or other elements I'm certainly happy to agree are follow on expanding with no other meddling (although anything that leaves an inconsistency like the Rebecca situation I mentioned earlier is also not a direct retcon but certainly more than exposition as well). But in this case considering it's important enough to a character back from the dead, it can't be claimed to be anything than a very early retcon in place of setting up further sequels on an level. So your statement they've 'never' done it in 16 years is already a fallacy.

Second to that, you still can't say they won't. Their track record says they are unlikely to, their history says they avoid it as much as possible, but neither you or I control the entire creative vision of the company and neither of us can't 100% ever confirm that they won't. That's all I said in the last post. At the end of the day if someone came up with a guaranteed seller even if it contradicted plot I bet you it would happen because the sales would always be more important to the company than the consistency/continuity of plot ever will.

There are no real retcons (later contradictions in narrative) in the series, at the end of the day. That includes Wesker's fate. You can't retcon something that was never canon. I don't care for hypothetical situations or "what if they did this." Explanation and exposition is not the same as retroactive continuity, at least in its most common definition (contradictions). Wesker's revival is written around the Progenitor Virus, and the precedents for a virus keeping a host alive in a clinically dead state (Zombie), healing tissue and reviving the dead (G-Virus) were already in place.

For instance, look at the scene where the Tyrant impales Wesker. In the original and the remake, Wesker is shocked. However in Umbrella Chronicles, the scene is the exact same, minus the shock on his face. The UC variant is the most "true", but still not canon. This doesn't mean the original or remake were retconned, it's just that the game is not meant to be taken at face value.

There is no inconsistency with Rebecca for reasons I've already explained. In terms of story, she is consistent. She's inconsistent in voice acting and direction, but so are most characters in the series.

*GASP* IT'S THREE DOTS OF DIFFERENCE!!! THAT'S ENOUGH FOR A PHRASE TO MEAN SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, GUYS!!! HE'S NOT DEAD. SURE, HE JUST GOT STABBED AND THERE'S BLOOD ALL OVER HIM, BUT THERE'S A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "HE'S DEAD" AND "HE'S UNCONSCIOUS" IN ONLY THREE DOTS OF JAPANESE LANGUAGE. YOU SEE, HE'S UNCONSCIOUS AND HIS FATE IS AMBIGUOS BECAUSE I SAID SO!!! DO NOT QUESTION MY INCREDIBLE TRANSLATING POWER!!!

Really, I'm starting to think Google Translator would do better than you.

EDIT

I just went into Google Translator, and asked it to translate the text.
Answer: "That's a tragic death!". Wow, even Google Translator is better than you.

That's interesting, Welsh found the unconscious line and many Japanese players have mentioned it. He could've mistaken it for the time when Barry knocks out Wesker outside the Tyrant's room in the same scenario.

Even so, Wesker's appearance in the power room generally isn't tied to the story, much in the same way Rebecca (a month rookie) has to explain what Umbrella is to Chris (a two year member) even though the company is the main sponsor of their team (and their logo is on some of the team's equipment). It's not only optional, but irrelevant as the game has no canon, they could alter or change whatever they liked with no ill effect. The fact that they removed Wesker from the power room in the remake makes it appear as though he wasn't intended to be there in the first place, considering the remake is mainly comprised of original intentions, the same way Deadly Silence recycles the hell out of BIO1's original game design plan by using puzzles that never made it in initially. Individual developers going against the grain and adding things that weren't meant to be there is found in all three original games. On top of that, the laboratory section of BIO1 was rushed and incomplete in general, with the end result just sort of thrown together to make something semi-coherent with what little they had done at that point.

Yep, and to be fair, you're right. Went through the 0 cutscenes again (eh...bleh) and indeed when compared to the text in that file in '1', you could see how the crease was open to take. Like a few others, I'm not fond of how they went about this, but that wasn't the point regardless.

Listening to that ep. 23 podcast, I got the impression from Welsh that indeed, at no point during 1 production, was there as much a scintilla of suggestion from anyone he spoke with that Wesker was to survive, in any future iteration. I understand he likely hasn't spoken with Mikami personally, but I do wonder if that late 96' interview he's quoted from is him attempting to cover all possible bases now knowing a sequel/larger franchise was on the horizon. Also, concerning that interview...

In a interview with Japanese magazine Famicom Tsushin, Capcom development chief Yoshiki Okamoto revealed some of theire future (and past) plans for the Bio Hazard series. Before Capcom began developing Bio Hazard 2 they began production on Bio Hazard: Dash, a semi-sequel to Bio Hazard.

Here's the thing about that- in same podcast, Welsh states that Dash was unknown to every Dev he spoke with, and that the entire team shifted almost immediately to working on 2 (1.5) after 1's completion.

Either he has incomplete (or even incorrect) information, or, it would seem that whether it be the producer (Okamoto) or the director himself (Mikami) that on occasion, these guys bend the truth of what was in reality occurring at the time. And not in some giant way or anything...but enough all these years later to invigorate the lively discussion seen on this thread.

"Anyone he spoke with" is key here. Welsh hasn't spoken to Shinji Mikami (yet), Yoshiki Okamoto, Hideki Kamiya or Noboru Sugimura (RIP). Or many other members, sometimes game proposals come from just one person and are never brought up to anyone but the immediate superior. DASH never made it beyond proposal, there are actually a few games like this that nobody knows about yet we've heard of them straight from the developers, including a Gameboy Advance title and open-world PlayStation 2 title.

That's pretty clear now. Wesker was dead in RE1, end of story.

Not according to Mikami or Kamiya, whose word matters significantly more than something a developer likely placed on a whim.

[Grem]

Not according to Mikami or Kamiya, whose word matter significantly more than something a developer likely placed on a whim.

Even with solid proof, you still want to believe there was something different.

What Kamiya or Mikami said AFTER RE1 was released is completely irrelevant. And weren't you the guy who constantly said that Mikami wasn't important to RE1 and that it was the other team members who made that game ? How convenient you suddenly suck Mikami's dick to prove a point.

[News Bot]

Even with solid proof, you still want to believe there was something different.

What Kamiya or Mikami said AFTER RE1 was released is completely irrelevant. And weren't you the guy who constantly said that Mikami wasn't important to RE1 and that it was the other team members who made that game ? How convenient you suddenly suck Mikami's dick to prove a point.

Solid proof of what exactly? It changes nothing. Mikami wasn't very important to subsequent games, yeah. Your point? He still directed BIO1 and Kenichi Iwao had left the team before it was released, making him the only remaining figure with authority over its story, in all of its unfinished glory.

The game has no canon, doesn't contain the whole story, was rushed and basically unfinished. There really doesn't need to be anything else said on the matter. Anyone trying to argue that the game's narrative doesn't line up with subsequent titles is spouting a moot point. It doesn't line up with itself. The subsequent titles are where the canon exists, not in BIO1. The events of the game are wholly dictated by later titles. We've already confirmed that Wesker was intended to be brought back as early as September 1996 and likely a lot earlier since BIO2 began development almost immediately after BIO1. It doesn't matter if he wasn't planned to be brought back in a sequel during BIO1's development, because BIO1 is a blank canvas as far as story goes beyond basic facts ("Wesker died" not being one of them).

FINALLY, after digging through files, it turns out that Wilfred Birkin gave Alan Whiskers the virus.

Why do you have to make that so hard NewsBot?????? You're a sadist!!! Why not say that the Prototype virus that Alan Whiskers injected himself with was the weakened version of the Prog Virus? Why not try to explain where the articles I linked to went wrong instead of giving me that confusing sentence at the top of this page of replies.

I assumed that you played the game, and I was very clear.

[Guest]

Not according to Mikami or Kamiya, whose word matters significantly more than something a developer likely placed on a whim.

What if Mikami and Kamiya simply had CHANGED THEIR MINDS after RE1's release?

[Grem]

News Bot : You are missing the point entirely.

The whole argument was that there was ambiguity over Wesker's fate. And you backed up your argument by saying that in the japanese version it was implied Wesker was uncounscious in the power room. Problem is, that line doesn't exist. There was no ambiguity for THE PLAYER !

That is the whole point. Damn ! You can argue all you want about the canon status of RE1 or the intentions of Mikami but it appeared to every player outthere that Wesker was very dead in the first game and that his resurrection in later sequels was forced. This an indisputable fact. There never was any ambiguity over that character's fate and you're trying to prove the contrary thanks to some PR talk made after the game.

[News Bot]

What if Mikami and Kamiya simply had CHANGED THEIR MINDS after RE1's release?

Would be the only time it's ever happened in 16 years, then. It was also Sugimura who brought Wesker back in the end and only because it worked with the overall story at the time. He initially refused Kamiya's proposal of bringing him back in BIO2, as far as I remember. I can imagine the reason was that it didn't make sense to Sugimura (originally being a player of BIO1). He brought him back as soon as the overall story at the time presented an opportunity that made sense.

News Bot : You are missing the point entirely.

The whole argument was that there was ambiguity over Wesker's fate. And you backed up your argument by saying that in the japanese version it was implied Wesker was uncounscious in the power room. Problem is, that line doesn't exist. There was no ambiguity for THE PLAYER !

That is the whole point. Damn ! You can argue all you want about the canon status of RE1 or the intentions of Mikami but it appeared to every player outthere that Wesker was very dead in the first game and that his resurrection in later sequels was forced. This an indisputable fact. There never was any ambiguity over that character's fate and you're trying to prove the contrary thanks to some PR talk made after the game.

"It appeared to every player out there" is not a good argument for a game with no canon... BIO1 was never meant to be taken at face value. The game itself basically telegraphs this to you throughout by not making any sense when viewed literally. I do get your point though and I agree to an extent.

Wesker's return was never forced though. It was tied directly into many central plot points in the series, such as the Progenitor Virus, the true purpose of the t-Virus Project, Spencer's true plan, etc. The circumstances enabling it were already part of the series too. The only reason it could feel forced is that all of the companion stories that would've explained it in detail were scrapped. That's the problem with working on a story anthology in a video game business. His initial appearance in CV was to drum up mystery and interest behind it, which worked as intended going by years of speculation on forums.

[TheBatMan]

Ah well, you got me. Fair's fair in that regard. I only went off what I was told and it seems like some people are just clearly making shit up when it comes to these translations then. C'est la vie.

[News Bot]

Ah well, you got me. Fair's fair in that regard. I only went off what I was told and it seems like some people are just clearly making shit up when it comes to these translations then. C'est la vie.

I'd rather Welsh defend himself but mistaking one line for another in the same area is not "making shit up." Everyone makes mistakes once in a while.

[Guest]

Would be the only time it's ever happened in 16 years, then. It was also Sugimura who brought Wesker back in the end and only because it worked with the overall story at the time. He initially refused Kamiya's proposal of bringing him back in BIO2, as far as I remember. I can imagine the reason was that it didn't make sense to Sugimura (originally being a player of BIO1). He brought him back as soon as the overall story at the time presented an opportunity that made sense.

Are you telling me producers are never allowed to change their mind of what's good for the series?
This happens all the time for every human being, it's a complete possibility that after seeing Wesker's popularity rising up, they thought "Meh, we can bring him back.", but originally intended him to die for real in RE1.

And sorry, but I don't buy this "RE1's events are not meant to be taken as canon". This isn't a trivial subject like "Who survived the mansion?", "Who killed the Tyrant?", "Who was in prison all the time?". Wesker dies in every ending, no matter what you do. Same with Enrico, Joseph, Richard, Forest and Kenneth. That's how you know they're meant to be dead, because you just can't do anything about it.

If this was really the case, then why did they bother bringing Wesker back with such silly backstory of "Yes, you totally seen me dying, but I injected myself with a virus that would ressurect me exactly 3 minutes later with super powers and absolutely no side effects."? This makes no sense. They did care about the fact they have shown Wesker dying every possible way in RE1, and that players wouldn't be dumb enough to assume his death in the game wasn't to be taken seriously.