RE2Make

[Enigmatism415]

I'd want RE2 and RE3 to be different scenarios of the same game, with backgrounds and models that match the quality of REmake and Zero. It would be a nice 'Raccoon Trilogy'.

[NEOMEGA]

I'd want RE2 and RE3 to be different scenarios of the same game, with backgrounds and models that match the quality of REmake and Zero. It would be a nice 'Raccoon Trilogy'.

Yep thats it. I know its a tall order but it would be great (at least for RE3's sake) to see the two games if they were being worked on coinciding..ly.
I think it would be cool if any future playthroughs of RE2 after beating RE3 would have a minor difficulty shift for C&L in the RPD station depending on what you did there with Jill

[yurieu]

I'd want RE2 and RE3 to be different scenarios of the same game, with backgrounds and models that match the quality of REmake and Zero. It would be a nice 'Raccoon Trilogy'.

Remake for me is 2015's graphics recorded as a video and released in 2002.

In this line of thinking, a video background of a 2015's game should looks like 2030s graphics.

[Enigmatism415]

a video background of a 2015's game should looks like 2030s graphics.

And this is why I love pre-rendered backgrounds.

[djepic112]

I don't think Capcom would take the financial risk and develop a RE2 remake in the classic original play style. It would probably be something close to Revelations.

[Enigmatism415]

I don't think Capcom would take the financial risk and develop a RE2 remake in the classic original play style. It would probably be something close to Revelations.

It's up to the talented fans to execute such feats. I also doubt that Capcom would deliver.

[Jimmy_Jazz]

I think I'll just leave this in here...

...It looks modern, while still keeping RE2's haunted house look.

I think that's my biggest problem - I don't think the intact & abandoned "haunted house look" would suit a RE2MAke. You're trapped in this building because the streets are full of zombies and there's nowhere else to go but deeper into the RPD and then Umbrella to escape. Every ground floor window should have legions of zombies banging at them. The pressure should constantly be there. Whilst the failed barricades and corpses of RPD officers show you what happens when things do go wrong. Even the car park would have a legion of zombies against the outside shutters (assuming there isn't another shutter above ground). The redeveloped streets should be so full of zombies that you're not funneled around by police barricades, but hoardes of undead that simply cannot be cut through with your limited ammo stocks. Even the UDK Remake of RE2 looks and feels very empty.

Looking back, it's odd how empty and clean the upper floors of the RPD are considering the notes talking about the final stand between RPD officers and the zombies. Anyone hiding in the Stars Office would have been fine until Leon & Claire turned up )

However, the macabre style could work for a wing or floor that's Chef Iron's hunting grounds. It would be an unnerving contrast to step into his pristine halls after wading through corpses and broken barricades across the rest of the RPD.

It's also a shame we never got cop zombies in the same body armour as Leon. Give them a helmet too and you've got zombies that can only be taken out at close range with a shotgun or with a Grenade Launcher.

I'd want RE2 and RE3 to be different scenarios of the same game

On one hand, I would love to see this. There is the potential for Jill and Claire to directly or indirectly interact give Claire better closer on Chris not being around.

But I felt shoehorning Jill & Nemesis' encounter into the RPD felt underwhelming. You didn't get to see the station in a state prior to the barricades failing, and are Capcom really suggesting that Ben and Chef Iron's were just sitting still during that time? I appreciate that Nemesis was conceived as a spin off and not the true RE3, but maybe there could have been better ways of adding part of the RPD to it. But many RE2&3 purists won't agree.

It's also a shame Brad's appearance in 2 was wasted on being an Easter Egg when it could have led to either a puzzle (get his ID Card from his corpse) or sharing information with Claire about Chris before dying. Something better could be done with him if RE2&3 were put together.

Remake for me is 2015's graphics recorded as a video and released in 2002.

In this line of thinking, a video background of a 2015's game should looks like 2030s graphics.

I can't agree with either analogy. Firstly, REMake's GFX aren't 2015 quality. You could get alot more polys, objects and higher res textures in a X360 / PS3 title. Alot of internal rooms in Uncharted, The Last Of Us and Arkham City really got close to REMake quality, but had the added pressure of having to store & draw adjacent rooms and areas simultaneously. You could probably get each console to render far beyond REMake if you only had to worry about static camera angles and only had one room loaded at a time.

Also, the PS4 & XBone can produce visuals far in excess of the REMake's static backgrounds, If you wanted to peg REMake's backgrounds into an era, it would be 2007-14.

As for 2015 pre-rendered GFX vs 2030 pre-rendered GFX, they're be identical. Currently offline renderers handle all attributes of lighting (reflection, refraction, sub surface scattering, bounce, multiple layers of atomic / above resolution roughness etc). The only thing that will be different in 2030 will be that they'll generating that quality of image faster, hpoefully to the point of realtime.

Which does bring up an interesting point, if you were creating rooms the size / scale of those in RE1&2 for a modern console, would it be better to render them in realtime? Whether it's for a RE2Make or an original title.

One of the benefits of this generation of console is that developers have moved to Physics Based Rendering / Shading, along with deferred lights, which really is about pushing the subtleties of light to make things look realistic. This includes bounce and reflections and these change when dynamic objects move through those environments. There is the potential for static backgrounds to look worse than real time onces as their lighting and reflections won't update as characters move through and interact with the world around them. You can pre-bake some lighting and bounce info to make this cheaper too.

Ontop of that, adding realtime physics to objects around the world and having lights switch on / off can create a much more dynamic and engrossing world around the player. Imagine that whilst being grabbed by a zombie you accidentally knock something over or a painting off a wall? The good old trusty lighter could get more use too as you'd have more things to set on fire.

Here's a couple of fan made projects in UE4, one of a room from Bully, and one of the REMake Lobby & Dining Room but untextured

Bully:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1uEzZY2t2Y

(it's more impressive during the second half of the vid when the camera goes into more detailed rooms)

RE1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6H1ZvYypjo

UE4 is in its infancy and isn't cutting edge yet in terms of rendering and these are the works of individuals, but it's more than plausible that we could get high quality realtime backgrounds on modern consoles for a survival horr title with static cameras. And I think the strengths (dynamic lighting & dynamic objects) of such an approach would out weight the benefits of pre-rendering them, which would now just amount to higher quality lighting and shadows.

For someone that's not really into an RE2Make, I know I am talking about it alot I guess it's because I feel that the idea of remaking RE2 for modern hardware raises alot of questions, more so than the REMake, and more than what's being asked by the press and fans when they talk about the subject.

[yurieu]

I can't agree with either analogy. Firstly, REMake's GFX aren't 2015 quality. You could get alot more polys, objects and higher res textures in a X360 / PS3 title. Alot of internal rooms in Uncharted, The Last Of Us and Arkham City really got close to REMake quality, but had the added pressure of having to store & draw adjacent rooms and areas simultaneously. You could probably get each console to render far beyond REMake if you only had to worry about static camera angles and only had one room loaded at a time.

Also, the PS4 & XBone can produce visuals far in excess of the REMake's static backgrounds, If you wanted to peg REMake's backgrounds into an era, it would be 2007-14.

I like the analogy since it can brings replies like this! I really disagree ps3/360/one/ps4 can run those real time effects, in full 1080p. I was playing RE0, the church outside is over exaggerated by animated backgrounds elements, but it is just a video from an engine running. In its native resolution + 3d resolution(like a 3d benchmark), neither console have gpus and cpus to render all that without stuttering, just think of Heaven and valley bennchmark.

[Jimmy_Jazz]

I haven't played 0, so I can't comment on that but will have a look on YT . When playing the REMaster you can really see how low poly counts and texture resolutions are, and something like the Museum in Arkham City has similar amounts of detail. It's really the lighting that elevates the REMake's backgrounds above Arkham City's, and this is whilst Arkham City has adjacent rooms loaded in memory, is dealing with alot more realtime effects, physics & characters. I didn't say the X360 or PS3 could handle the REMake backgrounds at 1080p, but at 720, and with a good lighting solution I reckon you could get a good match.

As for PS4/XBone, interiors in Assassin's Creed frequently exceed detail levels of the REMake in terms of poly counts, texture res, material quality and object counts. It's really the inaccurate reflections that let it down. You also have to remember that it's a fast paced open world game played from the third person so populated spaces don't feel as dense as the narrow corridors of the Spencer Mansion, even if they are full of more objects. It's easy to think that a densely populated small room contained more objects than a sparsely populated alrge room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFTcEDGM8QA

The Evil Within can also match the quality of REMake backgrounds, if not the lighting. Head to the 8-10mins to find a comparable environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrYIDuMjg8

I'd even say that The Order: 1886 is throwing around much more detailed environments than REMake with more complex lighting, FX and characters. Don't mistake its perpendicular edges, wide corridors and lack of objects for a lack of grunt going into composing the scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpfpL-e9vPo

Heaven & Valley benchmarks & general PC comparisons with next gen consoles are not really useful. Firstly, those benchmarks are designed to stress PC GPUs, with Heaven focusing specifically on tessellation. Many techniques can be approximated to achieve similar or identical quality results. Also, the PS4 and XBone don't have strong shader units, but where the PS4 shines is a boosted computer shader, which will really come into its own as realtime lighting techniques develop over the next few years. Alongsdide this, it's still possible to get better performance on console compared to PC in many cases where DX11 is the bottleneck, usually where draw counts are concerned, although DX12 should rectify that in the future.

Children of Tomorrow, on the PS4, is a good showcase of what to expect from lighting and material quality in console games over the next few years as tools mature and both artists and coders become more used to working with PBR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3hnLlIf4YI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ShISKM1D84

And these are in dynamic, open environments populated with lots of characters & light sources. Think of what will be possible within enclosed environments & static camera if someone was to go down that route.

[ajrich17901]

Remake style only or don't do it at all.

[Darkside05]

Remake style only or don't do it at all.

This.

I'd do it the Remake way, it's a shame even it were an option Shinji Mikami wouldn't be on board so who know's what could come out of it. But if it weren't the case, just leave RE2/RE3 as is without a remake.

[Undead Sega]

I'm going to make this very clear, there is no way any current video games console (and even PC to a certain extent) that can render graphics at a high poly count and physically correct lighting as a 3D program that renders interior architectures photorealistically in real-time.

[biohazard_star]

I'm going to make this very clear, there is no way any current video games console (and even PC to a certain extent) that can render graphics at a high poly count and physically correct lighting as a 3D program that renders interior architectures photorealistically in real-time.

There's really no comparison, but we're getting close this generation. Like I said a while back, AC:Unity has some fantastic indoor setpieces that can rival those of REmake's. And before you point out that they're too clean or that it isn't as detailed, do remember that this is an open-world game that tries to render massive areas and NPC populations seamlessly. If the devs make the areas smaller-scale, use loading screens, and fixed camera angles for LoD tricks, they can potentially cram in even more details and effects. Outbreak is a pretty good example with what can be achieved by doing this. It still looks amazing when played on emulators, and it achieved that grimey "lived-in" look that Code Veronica couldn't. Granted, it had massive loading times when playing on DVD, since it was designed to be played on HDD. We're only like a year in since the release of the PS4/Xbone anyway, so who knows what sort of graphical leaps we're gonna be getting between the start and end of this gen.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

[yurieu]

There's really no comparison, but we're getting close this generation. Like I said a while back, AC:Unity has some fantastic indoor setpieces that can rival those of REmake's. And before you point out that they're too clean or that it isn't as detailed, do remember that this is an open-world game that tries to render massive areas and NPC populations seamlessly. If the devs make the areas smaller-scale, use loading screens, and fixed camera angles for LoD tricks, they can potentially cram in even more details and effects. Outbreak is a pretty good example with what can be achieved by doing this. It still looks amazing when played on emulators, and it achieved that grimey "lived-in" look that Code Veronica couldn't. Granted, it had massive loading times when playing on DVD, since it was designed to be played on HDD. We're only like a year in since the release of the PS4/Xbone anyway, so who knows what sort of graphical leaps we're gonna be getting between the start and end of this gen.

First thing: Capcom needs a brand new engine.

[Jimmy_Jazz]

I'm going to make this very clear, there is no way any current video games console (and even PC to a certain extent) that can render graphics at a high poly count and physically correct lighting as a 3D program that renders interior architectures photorealistically in real-time.

Let me make a few things very clear for you:

Firstly, I never said that you could render a world in 3D on a console in realtime to the quality of pre-rendered environment.

Secondly, Architects use software that pre-renders their work at extremely high detail. They do not have access the hardware to do that in real time.

Thirdly, pre-rendered CG industries use different GPUs to real-time CG. Those GPUs, usually NVidia Quadros, are ideal aren't as good at rendering in realtime as GeForces, Radeons & what's in consoles. So if you're talking about what architects can do in realtime, it's behind what we can do in games.

Fourthly, the gap between what can be achieved in realtime and pre-rendered is narrowing.

My point was that I believe the size of this gap to be small enough to be worth sacrificing the extra detail in favour of more interactive and dynamic environments.

I have extensively covered where realtime environments in games of the current and last gen can match and fall behind their pre-rendered counter parts in the REMake.