1.5 Map Confusion

[Alzaire]

Your placement doesn't work. The building you have colored orange with the ramp green on your image is a building across the street from the RPD.

This building. It's seen from a further distance from the balcony above the burning van, but this is definitely the same building. (the one circled in white)



This is the layout of the Parking Garage and accompanying Vehicle Service Area. Layout is almost guaranteed accurate, though the map I drew is likely not to perfect scale.



The armory and firing range layout is as I drew it, though once again the proportion scale may be off and the placement is working guesses. The only open window in the armory is between it and inside the firing range.

Dark Biohazard is not a recreation of 1.5, it merely has some inspirations from 1.5. The prison cells in the DB trailer are fully a creation of c2keo's design and not mean to be accurate recreations of 1.5's. There's not much footage of the holding cells area.

In fact, there's only footage of 3 parts of holding cell area. This leaves full speculation on the design of the hall and/or doorway leading into that area.

http://www.bioflames.com/net/l25.jpg

http://www.bioflames.com/24.gif

http://www.bioflames.com/net/l12.jpg

The playstationmuseum 10 minute video includes footage of the holding cell area, but again only shows this same stuff.

As for Marvin's project, I have no idea what he's up to with it. But, no offense to him, he's working on it solely by himself (from what I understand) and has been doing stuff on it for like a couple years now or so and has very little to show for it so far (though claims to have made some decent progress). I have been considering getting in touch with him personally to see what's going on. I admit I'm a bit skeptical on his project since almost zero projects ever get far or get finished, but we'll have to see. I don't think he wants anything to be known publicly at the moment though, judging from what he's said in a couple of his lasts posts about the project on Bioflames.

[Linzuki]

The ramp makes sense. This is what I had in mind... [See]

Though the rooms are likely not that far into the corner, and the way the car park faces is questionable. Since I haven't seen those rooms (apart from some of the prison cells from dark biohazard trailer, which is also questionable if it is accurate or guess work) I can only guess room placement, going solely by the door placement on your basement map. Though, I hope this gives you an idea of how the layout is. The one problem I have is room proportions, It's hard to get all the rooms to fit. I think you've got the firing range and armory spot on, unless (if you have footage of) the armory is missing the shutter in the wall. It makes sense, so officers can get their equipment through the shutter instead of walking around.

I understand about the information being all over the place, I'm glad that You and Dot are working on that, and I'm sure plenty of people are grateful for it so no rush. I'll slowly map out all I can in the source engine and run through it to see if it looks right. By the way, do you know anything about the project that Marvin is working on? is he doing a remake on 1.5 or something? seems interesting.

[Alzaire]

Have you ever though that maybe the elevator ( me and that elevator huh ) goes down to B2? for more... extreme things. Firing Range, Armory, Sewer, so forth. Also, regarding the flaming truck. I can't quite see from the image, but it looks like it's taken down a wall. So is it possible that the car park exit comes out on the other side of that wall? it sort of fits into the basement map I've been working on (though I stopped until I can see more images and video, because I'm not 100% on the door placement).

By the way, Sorry if you're thinking to yourself "Geez... this guy doesn't know much on 1.5" I admit I don't know a whole lot. I'm learning a whole lot of new things here, so Thank you all very much .

It is quite possible the elevator goes down to a B2 (a stairwell would also have to go down to it as well though, or it wouldn't be practical). I have considered the possibilities of a B2 for the RPD before, so I'm not against the idea. I've just not been able to map anything good because most of the main basement halls we have footage of are pretty much for sure on the B1 area, leaving very little or nothing to fixate positioning and design for a B2.

I think you're saying the idea of the parking garage exiting out directly across from the burning van to the east? No, I don't think that's practical. That would put a large portion of the RPD's basement way across the street underneath a random building. The first version of my map where the parking garage ramps up and exits out the east side of the RPD can make the placement of a crashed police van in the wall pretty understandable.



If the garage exits out there, it can be assumed the reason the van crashed into the wall is probably due to a hectic atmosphere at the time. The parking garage in 1.5 is a mess with crashed cars, damage, ect. I'd venture to say it would be likely a car was exiting the garage while the van was trying to return into the garage and due to the confusion, the van crashes into the wall.

And no it's ok about not having much information. There honestly isn't really a very good central place for accurate or specialized information for 1.5 at this time, since Bioflames is way out of date, the forum is mostly dead except for some modders, and the most informative information and Inflames' exclusive final beta images are scattered throughout various posts and topics dating back over months and years. I know it's very slow going, but this is why I look forward to when Dot50 and I can get to some real work on the 1.5 section for the site. Just have to wait for Dot to finish the RE1 section first.

[Linzuki]

Mmhm, I see. Yeah thats right, it does make things look weird in the editor, strange field of view I suppose. I completely redid the stairwell part on my 3dmap. It's now more accurate and isn't so steep so thats good. Have you ever though that maybe the elevator ( me and that elevator huh ) goes down to B2? for more... extreme things. Firing Range, Armory, Sewer, so forth. Also, regarding the flaming truck. I can't quite see from the image, but it looks like it's taken down a wall. So is it possible that the car park exit comes out on the other side of that wall? it sort of fits into the basement map I've been working on (though I stopped until I can see more images and video, because I'm not 100% on the door placement).

By the way, Sorry if you're thinking to yourself "Geez... this guy doesn't know much on 1.5" I admit I don't know a whole lot. I'm learning a whole lot of new things here, so Thank you all very much .

[Alzaire]

Your note about the stairs is an issue that I've messed around with a lot. It can be solved in a couple of ways to a degree. The first one is to assume it's not the stairs that go down from the stairwell next to the elevator. The other way is to make the room longer east-ways on the basement floor slightly. It's still an odd steep stairs though, so I'm not 100% sure. Also the stairs may appear steeper than they actually are. c2keo (the background modeler for Dark Biohazard) and I talk a lot and he has showed me how angles and perspective can really skew things in the backgrounds, makings things look smaller, bigger, taller, shorter, ect. than they actually are.

Sorry I should have noted that I was using the idea of the concept art to simply refer to a possibility that the parking garage is more aligned with the rear of the RPD as opposed to the east side like in the first version. It is still supposed to be underground, ramping up to the surface in the rear of the building. There's probably a large back lot of the RPD that is completely inaccessible (or if it is, there's zero indication or media of it).

The only basement rooms positively shaped are the morgue, power room, the main hallway, armory, firing range, forensics, kennel, and the vehicle service area and the parking garage itself. The holding cells area is probably very close to accurate (door location fully guestimated).

As for the shape of the basement itself, it's hard to say. There's only a couple of ways you can align the known doors and general layout with either possible stairwell in order for most of the basement to be aligned under the building and not stretching off far away from it.

[Linzuki]

I see.. Well, I'll play around with it myself based off your 2nd map. I'm looking at all the videos I can find, but theres 2 things that bug me about that stairwell... for 1, the way the current layout is now, there isn't enough space for the platform and the stairs. If the door opens and you go straight down the stairs then they appear to be extremely steep, so I don't know if a right angle comes into play with the platform (like in the map I guessed out). Secondly, I can't see down the side of the stairs, so it might be that there is another door down there or something along those lines. Regarding the Garage, the one shown in the concept art is on level with Floor 1. I can't figure out how it gets to the basement. But I suppose things could have changed. Well, as always video or images are most appreciated, it's no rush so please take your time .

1 more thing, are you 100% positive on all the room shapes or is it just a guess?

[Alzaire]

Yeah that bottom left image is a stairway down to the basement. I believe if the 2nd version of the map is more accurate, it is the stairs in the upper right corner to the left of the C marked on the map. Otherwise if it's the stairwell next to the elevator, then the bottom part must extend out a little ways in order for the stairs to fit going down the east with the door in the basement exiting the east wall too.

No I don't see how the elevator comes into play when thinking about the morgue. I doubt they bring in any bodies from the first floor. They are probably brought in through the parking garage into the basement, which is also likely how they are brought in in retail RE2 as well.

The second version of the map looks more complicated than it actually is. I think it's just cause of all the text and letters, as well as being overlaid on top of the 1st floor map for reference.

The main area of the basement is about all we can almost positively map. The morgue, power room, and a stairwell and the hallway area that joins these are the most common and completish material. Mapping the rest of the basement is pretty much full-on guesswork using available screenshots and video. And there just isn't enough.

There's a few other shots of basement areas. There's an image of the armory door from the outside and it's hallway. The kennel door and it's hall and the door from inside the vehicle service area into the parking garage are available. There's a questionable door that I speculate leads into the forensics room. And depending on which map version is more accurate, there is possible a shot of the door that leads into the service area of the garage.

It's hard to really get anything to work right. For one thing Capcom has made several errors and perspective inconsistencies that could make an accurate layout look inaccurate due to it. Also considering we're working with images and video from generally 3 or 4 different builds of the game makes it difficult as well considering it's highly likely things were changed, layouts were shifted around, doors have different textures, ect. Heck, the kennel is a good example of how one set of images from it is complete (the dog cages are modeled) but another screenshot does not have the cages modeled and those images are from the same build.

The good thing is there really is a lot of media regarding the basement, enough to at least make serviceable attempts at the map. There's much less of the upper floors to work with and impossible in that area.

If I can get around to it, I'll try to post up some images and video screenshots to show some things.

[Linzuki]

Wow geez... thats a lot looks like I got a lot of stuff to look over! Thanks for the maps and images

I'm having a really hard time fitting the stair well in the way displayed in your maps... I assume its not the same as my guess. Is the bottom left the stair well?

[See]

I can't make any sense of that map by BlackCrow. Too many pictures :S its pretty clustered. The basement layout looks alright, but I also think it's somewhat out of place. It looks very complicated. Also, since there is a morgue down there, I doubt officers would carry the body down. So again, maybe the elevator plays a roll there also. Also, the dog kennels would be near the parking lot also? for ease of access I guess. Is there any Corridor + door that you know 100% leads to a room? besides the morgue.

Again, Thanks for the help

Edit: Oh thats much better haha, thanks Harry.

[Harry Mason]

Also Harry, that Black Crow map is extremely difficult to understand (at least in the max size it shows up). Really bad design on Black Crow's part to try and put all the background images squished into those areas like that (not to mention he has them rotated and turned around in various places to match the internal layout, but that is just confusing for a regular person). Does he not still have the old version on his site? I know some people hated the way he had all those arrows pointing to stuff and it was a little bit confusing, but at least the map was clear and it wasn't too hard to figure out with the pointers.

Oh, that was my meddling, I figured it might help him to understand the layout better without looking up the individual shots. I'll switch it.

[kevstah2004]

hmm the crates / waste bins are in slightly different position there's a gap between the rails in the video if the crates / waste bins where moved out the way I bet they'd be a service ladder down the side of building on that photo it looks like there's some roof exit room in front of the crates / waste bins instead.

[Alzaire]

As Harry pointed out, those last 2 images you posted are not the RPD at all. That's the Umbrella Factory area, which is where you end up after the sewers. That area -is- 99% accurately mapped with Black Crow's maps. This is because the complete background images for those areas are available, found leftover on the RE2 trial disc. We have the areas past the sewers mapped out nearly 100% accurate.

The RPD building is almost for sure 1 building, I have no reason to believe otherwise. In retail RE2, the RPD is less compact and wider, with the basement pretty much right underneath it fitting fine.

There is enough evidence to support that the map of the 1st floor is a real indication of the boundaries of the building. I don't think it's any larger. I'm pretty sure it simply has a 3rd floor to encompass the amount of rooms it has.

I will draw up some rough map layouts overlayed on the actual 1st floor map for comparison. I'm doing these quickly, so they aren't exactly to full scale of size (halls, rooms, ect). Just to give an idea of what you're looking at.

This was the first speculated layout of the Basement 1st Floor. This design works in general for what is there, but there's quite a number of basement areas missing, as indicated. (though leaving plenty of rooms for a possible 2nd basement level, though I'm not so believing of a 2nd basement level at this time)



The above design also allows for an issue to be "fixed" regarding the east side of the building, as indicated below:



It would also work in favor with the fact the burning police van struck the wall near the ramp exit, assuming the idea to work out.

Next up is a rough mapping I had previously made of RPD Basement that changes the location of the Parking Garage and seems to allow pretty much every known area of the Basement within a reasonable boundary compared to the foundation of the 1st floor. This one is also not to exact scale, and I have not yet done more intensive investigation into room scale to ensure that the areas can fit together like this.



This idea of the garage existing and exiting out of the rear/north side of the RPD stems from a concept image of the RPD that seems to fit more along the lines of the 1.5 police station as opposed to retail.



Edit: In the 2nd speculatory map, I refer to some areas as UMB 023 and 024. These are in reference to the names of a set of images I was using to work on the map that me and a friend share while trying to figure out the maps.

Also Harry, that Black Crow map is extremely difficult to understand (at least in the max size it shows up). Really bad design on Black Crow's part to try and put all the background images squished into those areas like that (not to mention he has them rotated and turned around in various places to match the internal layout, but that is just confusing for a regular person). Does he not still have the old version on his site? I know some people hated the way he had all those arrows pointing to stuff and it was a little bit confusing, but at least the map was clear and it wasn't too hard to figure out with the pointers.

[Harry Mason]

More rooms than RE2 it seems... Do you have pictures of all the basement rooms in RE1.5? the fact that it's 2x bigger than the 1st floor might be a reason as to why RE2 is missing some of those rooms. Though the 1.5 station seems a bit smaller than #2. Or maybe there are 2 buildings... [See]

Are the 1st and B1 floors of RE2 the same size? I guess it's possible that the 1st floor of 1.5 is bigger than we think. Just brick and concrete, or divided into another building. It also looks like the elevator has 5 buttons on the side of the wall... either that or it's just seriously pixelated. Do you have a "most accurate" prediction of your B1 map? or could I see some layouts/images. I understand if it's personal work though

The car park is weird yeah, it's probably that they didn't expect you to look for these kind've things. Or they worked on modeling the place so much they just went numb and didn't think about it. I get like that >_>;

By the way, images are most appreciated I'm making a 3d map, so getting accurate textures is always good.

Edit: [See]

You guy's have probably gone over this already so sorry if I'm digging through old stuff...

Edit 2: There must be more than 1 building surely. Why would a police station have a parking lot for cargo trucks, and loading and unloading platforms?

Those loading platforms are part of the street, medical factory, and warehouse area which black crow got picture perfect.

as for the basement, 2nd floor, and sewer section. The scraps that fit together are few, with some complete rooms. Some areas even seem to line up with other floors but as Alzaire already said there are many possible combinations so until some new info comes out that makes some real connections it's all speculation

[Linzuki]

I changed the brightness levels on the images I posted, maybe thats why?

[Branden_Lucero]

huh. that police station looks bloodier and darker than i remembered seeing.

[Linzuki]

More rooms than RE2 it seems... Do you have pictures of all the basement rooms in RE1.5? the fact that it's 2x bigger than the 1st floor might be a reason as to why RE2 is missing some of those rooms. Though the 1.5 station seems a bit smaller than #2. Or maybe there are 2 buildings... [See]

Are the 1st and B1 floors of RE2 the same size? I guess it's possible that the 1st floor of 1.5 is bigger than we think. Just brick and concrete, or divided into another building. It also looks like the elevator has 5 buttons on the side of the wall... either that or it's just seriously pixelated. Do you have a "most accurate" prediction of your B1 map? or could I see some layouts/images. I understand if it's personal work though

The car park is weird yeah, it's probably that they didn't expect you to look for these kind've things. Or they worked on modeling the place so much they just went numb and didn't think about it. I get like that >_>;

By the way, images are most appreciated I'm making a 3d map, so getting accurate textures is always good.

Edit: [See]

You guy's have probably gone over this already so sorry if I'm digging through old stuff...

Edit 2: There must be more than 1 building surely. Why would a police station have a parking lot for cargo trucks, and loading and unloading platforms?