Leon

[Angel _ 89]

I hate RE4. That's all there is to it...

why helegad you hate it ... it's so fun and action

i like it ...

[Darkmoon]

Well, mostly because, while a wonderful game and a great action game...it's a crap Resident Evil.

- The plot is disonnected and horribly cliched.

-No horror.

-No Puzzles.

-No Exploration.

-Characters are more like cardboard cutouts with ninja skills than people.

And a few other reasons. A lot of folk don't like it. Me, I just think it was a bad Resident Evil game. As an action game I like it enough to own two copies, for the GameCube and Wii.

[beasley23803]

I love Resident Evil 4, it was a great RE game and Leon was great too. So what it lacked the old game play, that game play was extremely boring. Even the developers felt that way. And getting rid of those slow walking, moaning idiots was the best thing that ever happened to the series. It was seriously time to move on and I'm glad the creators decided to do so. Its like they read my mind.

The RE4 Leon was waaay superior. He had more character and I felt he had a real purpose as RE2 Leon was just a plain newbie cop trying to escape. The RE4 Leon is also caring and has a genuine personality and a solid character. Not that RE2's Leon didn't. I just appreciate the work put into developing RE4's Character.

So what he was the invincible James bond..so are all the other series Characters. You honestly think someone would have been able to get through any of those events unscratched and managed to dodge every single bullet. Yeah right. So Chris, Jill, Claire, etc. are all super human, why pick on Leon. Besides he had top level government training. What did you all expect. Another Rookie?

[Darkmoon]

Yes Beasley, I didn't same the new game play was bad. I said the story and the removal of the horror, exploration and puzzles made it a poor Resident Evil. The game play was a good choice to make it more accessable to the series but, and I ask this to everyone, can you please explain why they had to make such a poor, cliched story to do so? Or why they had to give you an enemy whose only scare tactic is that there of tons of them, offset by the fact you have enough ammo to take out the whole of Canada? Or that you're puzzles are limited to, for the most part, 'Pick up item. Insert item two minutes later. Maybe spin something.' Or that exploration is 'Look around area A. Move to area B. Look are around Area B. Move to area C.'

The answer I'm sure you'll arrive at is they didn't. The changes were too radical and not, in the whole, needed. The new control system was a great idea. But turning the game into an action killed off the elements that made many of the older fans love it. You like it, and that's great for you. I like it as well. But I don't think it was a good RE because, really, it was a completely different game.

The main character is now Peon. There's a chinese spy named Hada working for Pesker. Now...how much of a relationship does RE4 have? The game's different. The story isn't related. All the elements that made me like the game have either been removed (exploration) or toned down to point of barely being there to make room of the killin' time! In essence, despite the title...the game ain't RE.

As to Leon in RE4, the reason I dislike him (bar his sudden ability to defy the laws of physics. Goverment training...or zen master super hero?) is, in terms of personality and emotion, he's neck and neck with my cooker. And honestly, I think the cooker may be pulling ahead.

[Jill Lover]

RE4 was OK for an action game, but that is not a Resident Evil, RE5 is going the same way But i'm hoping they bring back the main story plot just to see how it ends...

[beasley23803]

Being that many of the puzzles were canon, like the ones in the Spencer Mansion, it wouldn't make any sense to have puzzles in this place too. Unless it was Umbrella or George Trevor related. It would just be unrealistic if every game had puzzles everywhere. Especially a canon game such as 4. The basis of the story is Cliche, but not the deeper end.

The parasitic point of the story is indirectly part of the series, because trust me, if Wesker wants it or see it as significant it's going to play a role in a future title.

I consider Separate Ways to be a direct sequel to the series as a whole, but not any specific game.

This game is still much RE, I just thinks its game play is much more realistic. Being able to freely aim, Actually fighting off monsters, being able to use you environment, etc. The old game play was just not realistic. Doesn't mean it was bad, it's just in a RE situation, RE'4's game play would have been waaay more appropriate and fits the situation better.

[Helegad]

I don't like RE4 because I've only got the PC port, which I can't stand without proper keyboard and mouse support.

[Darkmoon]

And I agree. The new gameplay is much better. It is, unfortunately, the only thing that did get better.

The story may become more relevent with the events of five. The G-Virus, for example, as a huge deal in RE2...that so far hasn't made any impact on the other titles. Even RE3. As the RE 4 plot stands, though, it's pretty well disconnected. And, honestly, I found it to be poor quality. Resuce the President's daughter? What? I mean, sure, I don't expect quality plots from Capcom...but I found RE4's especially poor.

As for puzzles...you mean you can't imagine a cult full of paranoid people infected with parasites using puzzles to protect there secrets? It's no worse than the idea that the only way to get through a door is a fake eyeball. Especially in the castle and after.

[beasley23803]

And I agree. The new gameplay is much better. It is, unfortunately, the only thing that did get better.

The story may become more relevent with the events of five. The G-Virus, for example, as a huge deal in RE2...that so far hasn't made any impact on the other titles. Even RE3. As the RE 4 plot stands, though, it's pretty well disconnected. And, honestly, I found it to be poor quality. Resuce the President's daughter? What? I mean, sure, I don't expect quality plots from Capcom...but I found RE4's especially poor.

As for puzzles...you mean you can't imagine a cult full of paranoid people infected with parasites using puzzles to protect there secrets? It's no worse than the idea that the only way to get through a door is a fake eyeball. Especially in the castle and after.

Well since in real life they use eyeballs to open doors, I guess that would actually make sense even if it is fake. Disconnected from the series, so what. Who says all RE games have to be about Umbrella? You RE4 haters are blined by your dislike of the games story so now you all hate everything post RE4..without even thinking.

[Darkmoon]

Yes. I hate the game I bought twice. Brand new. That's the answer.

So, it makes perfect sense to you that a faked glass eyeball, something only one guy has, can be used to open a door but puzzles are odd? In a medieval castle populated by paranoid folk possesed by bugs? If it was actually retinal scanner, then it makes sense...but I'm not sure if it's possible and why would they use his fake eye rather than his real one?

And no one said all the games have to be about Umbrella. On the other hand, it would be nice if it added to the mythos. Or even had something beyond a bare bones story. The president's daughter is kidnapped? How weak is that? And two people Leon knew just happen to have been sent on the same mission?

Now...if it had been me, I'd have used a high ranking official. Maybe a senator. Someone who can at least point a handgun and not scream, at least. They'd still be able to do everything Ashley could, and probably a bit more. Well, except be underage jail bait flashing her panties and would we really miss out on that? Now, if you gotta have Ada then you need to send Ada in with a reason connected to Leon. Having the two of them there (plus Krauser) is too much of a stretch. But if Ada was sent to trail Leon and help him, using the theory that Leon's presence would cover hers and allow her to penetrate the facility that much more easily while being able to manipulate it...hmmm.

I'd also make the Los Illumindos a little bit more sensible. And explain them in more detail. How on earth did they get hold of highly advanced scientific equipment? Where did they get the money? And where the hell do they all live? There must be more villages around because the village has, what, nine or ten houses? And you kill how many hundreds of the little beggars? A little back story goes a long way.

But eh. I probably hate the game far too much to think of what might have been ahd they given more thought to the story and horror and less to how many guns they could pack in. Because having a game the old school and new fans could enjoy? That would be just awful.

[Jill's Boob]

Well since in real life they use eyeballs to open doors, I guess that would actually make sense even if it is fake. Disconnected from the series, so what. Who says all RE games have to be about Umbrella? You RE4 haters are blined by your dislike of the games story so now you all hate everything post RE4..without even thinking.

Well, though I disagree with everything from your other posts, it wasn't until your final sentence in post #3 that I felt a response was necessary.

Eff you, Mr. High & Mighty. People who don't like RE4 "don't think?" Let me guess, you believe that all people who don't like RE4 are just simplistic morons who (don't think and) spew off continual nonsense? Well, for an example of spewing nonsense, just reread your posts.

RE4 was a good game - it had good pacing, lots of things to shoot, good graphics, and a fun weapon customization feature. Everything else was absolute crap. The only way someone could find the story or characters to be a strength of RE4 would be to "not think."

I love Resident Evil 4, it was a great RE game and Leon was great too. So what it lacked the old game play, that game play was extremely boring. Even the developers felt that way. And getting rid of those slow walking, moaning idiots was the best thing that ever happened to the series. It was seriously time to move on and I'm glad the creators decided to do so. Its like they read my mind.

The control scheme from previous RE games needed an overhaul, yes. But to say the "game play was extremely boring" is going a bit far. The game play for RE1, RE2, RE3, and RECV may not be a fast-paced, sugar-rush affair, but it is certainly not boring. (Unless you are one of those "I only actually played RE4" fans, raised on Halo, Gears of War, etc.) The classic RE is paced as such, because the game play is based on exploration, some combat, and the goal of trying to solve a mystery (and/or escape).

"Getting rid of those slow walking, moaning idiots was the best thing that ever happened to the series." You know, a statement like that is pretty indicative of someone who started playing the RE series at RE4, then went back and tried an older RE game, only to shut it off after realizing it wasn't a fast-paced, run & gun affair. RE used to be about the experience, the feeling of continual dread, for as long as it took you to beat the game; not about running circles around your enemies and unloading the plethora of ammo you could find (in RE4).

Zombies were great, because they were suited to the slower gameplay of the early games. And of course, as the game progressed, you faced faster, more varied enemies (Hunters, Lickers, etc).

But, I guess replacing the "slow walking, moaning idiot" zombies with "run at you until they're 7 feet away, then slow to a walk, spanish moaning idiot" ganados is more your style?

The RE4 Leon was waaay superior. He had more character and I felt he had a real purpose as RE2 Leon was just a plain newbie cop trying to escape. The RE4 Leon is also caring and has a genuine personality and a solid character. Not that RE2's Leon didn't. I just appreciate the work put into developing RE4's Character.

So what he was the invincible James bond..so are all the other series Characters. You honestly think someone would have been able to get through any of those events unscratched and managed to dodge every single bullet. Yeah right. So Chris, Jill, Claire, etc. are all super human, why pick on Leon. Besides he had top level government training. What did you all expect. Another Rookie?

Being that many of the puzzles were canon, like the ones in the Spencer Mansion, it wouldn't make any sense to have puzzles in this place too. Unless it was Umbrella or George Trevor related. It would just be unrealistic if every game had puzzles everywhere. Especially a canon game such as 4. The basis of the story is Cliche, but not the deeper end.

The parasitic point of the story is indirectly part of the series, because trust me, if Wesker wants it or see it as significant it's going to play a role in a future title.

I consider Separate Ways to be a direct sequel to the series as a whole, but not any specific game.

This game is still much RE, I just thinks its game play is much more realistic. Being able to freely aim, Actually fighting off monsters, being able to use you environment, etc. The old game play was just not realistic. Doesn't mean it was bad, it's just in a RE situation, RE'4's game play would have been waaay more appropriate and fits the situation better.

The story is laughable. As Darkmoon said - it is such a stretch of the imagination to believe that a simple rescue mission would suddenly unravel a deep, disturbing terrorist-like plot involving a cult that has cult-ivated (pun intended) a mind- & body-controlling parasite. Along the way, "Peon" (I actually like this name for him) travels from rustic village to medieval castle to high-tech laboratory to lava world to oil platform. He just happens to face off against ogres, a mobile stone statue of Salazar, mobile stone dragons that breathe fire, and other various "things." He also conveniently runs into the same mysterious spy woman he met 5 years ago, and a former colleague-turned-enemy. On the same mission. Later, he receives helo air support, yet not one other form of backup arrives. Ever. Then he saves the President's daughter, without ever breaking a sweat or feeling fear, and rides off into the sunset (literally) on a waverunner. A waverunner!!! In the middle of the ocean.

The characters:

- Leon was a naive, inexperienced rookie police officer in RE2. He was charming in that, though he was in over his head, he did his best to protect and rescue others. He was never arrogant, or unlikeable. You could sympathize with him because he was a regular human placed into extraordinary circumstances. Enter RE4. All the sudden the Leon from RE2 was a POW/MIA. We now have a cocksure, arrogant, emo-haired loser. He spouts lame one-liners, never feels fear, can pull off Matrix-like flips, kicks, pirouettes, etc. He deploys grappling hooks from his belt. He charms all the ladies. He has sword fights with a small hunting knife. All of his dialogue made me cringe. It was the first time in my life that I played a video game where I absolutely HATED the character I was playing as. Did I mention his stupid hair?

- Ada was a simple double-agent woman, who never showcased any sort of super abilities. She was likable in that she was normal, and her heart betrayed her mission. Enter RE4 Ada (convenient that her and Leon's path crossed again, no?), a super-sleuth-ninja-spy that is apparently as light as a feather. She uses a grappling gun to swing, flip, and fly through the air with the skill of Spider-Man. Perhaps she was bitten by a radioactive spider sometime between 1998 and 2003. Otherwise, Ada is the cliched love interest. Used to be a damsel in distress, but today's youth enjoy their damsels to be as tough as their male hero.

- Krauser is a gruff, tough, muscle-bound meanie that has it out for Leon. Apparently they used to be brothers-in-arms, but now they hate each other and duel it out with hunting knives. I don't think it was ever explained why Krauser switched sides (money, power, evil nature - all cliched explanations). Maybe it was explained. I've played through the game 3 times, but the story is so soporific that I usually just tune it out. Krauser is the ultimate cliche nemesis.

- Luis is the usual temporary ally who gets killed.

- Ashley is the (classic) damsel in distress. She whines, screams, and generally plays "useless." She has a large rack, and you can see up her short skirt. She is also blonde. The complete sex appeal. She also constantly swoons over Leon, though he probably spends more time on his hair / looks than she does. Why couldn't it be the President's son? Or why couldn't the daughter be 13 or 14? Why did she HAVE to be of legal sexual age? Oh - then it wouldn't be cliche enough!

- Village Chief, Salazar, Saddler...typical action movie / game villains. The "tough," the comedic "baddie," and the "mastermind." One poses a physical domination-type of threat. The other is a bumbling oaf (in this case a dwarf) that provides a few laughs at his pathetic-ness. The head boss, of course, plays it from afar, until the final showdown where he naturally discloses his entire plans before promising to kill the hero.

Now I don't think RE4 is the only game with farfetched character development. In RECV, Claire all the sudden became some super soldier (without the excuse of government training), as she was outrunning gatling gun fire, defying physics to drop faster than her gun, etc. These kinds of things make me cringe, as I prefer my RE characters to be regular humans placed into extraordinary situations. But at least Claire retained her humanity in RECV. RE4 Leon is a walking, cliche talking douchebag.

Anyway, beasley23803, my point is this: maybe YOU should THINK before YOU post.

[Jill Lover]

Jill's Boob you're so damn right, but I never thought that deep about RE4, I just knew that it wasn't cool. Anyway Leon was trained for that kind of mission, we already know the story plot sucks, that Leon now is a super agent that can eliminate almost everything without fearing... that reminds me to RE2 Apocalypse ¬¬. But let's face it, RE5 is gonna be the same shit, Now Chris is super muscle, I wouldn't be suprise if he jumps high or if he's good at backflips (we could see one during REUC in the laser room which is stupid)
I really hate RE4 because of the story, enemies and stupid characters development. The game should have been a little bit darker, with zombies running, and not too fantastic monsters taken from other movies or legends... RE4 it's weird at any angle... it's laughable but it made a lot of money so Mikami now is sleeping in his bed made of dollars.
He did want to do this to his game, he wasn't happy with RE2 - RE3 not even with RE1.
He enjoyed RECV (We knew that RE was becoming an action game since then)
So if he felt unsure with his creation and then created RE4, he'll have his reasons... but RE4, assuming that Mikami was crying of happiness with it, was his perfect creation and the way he wanted to go for the series... I couldn't care less about RE5, it looks like the same, i don't hate the new gameplay style, just the action thing... and the new plagas cliche thing instead of a virus... you know... zombies like Dawn of the dead would have made the thing a little bit interesting...

[Jill's Boob]

Mikami was behind the production of RE1, 2, 3, CV, and 4. It is his vision that guided the series where it is today. So, like it or not, it is where we are at. The series definitely started becoming more action-oriented with RE3.

I don't mind the "survival action" angle, though I won't denounce the older titles like beasley did with his posts. I still enjoy playing RE1 and RE2. REmake is actually my favorite game in the series.

The game change - the "shift to action," if you will - was necessary to ensure the survival of the series. Today's gamers are more about faster pacing, and quick game play. So the RE series has tried to adapt itself to what sells. Not what classic RE fans want, but I understand Capcom's motives (money, of course). Though people curse Capcom as a greedy entity, the truth is, that business (hell, the world) runs on it.

For me, zombies still have a lot of appeal. They are the coolest enemy, as they signify a "horror" game. I think, if done right, they can still be relevant enemies. Look at the first trailer for RE5. The one that featured Chris in a blue uniform. He was being pursued by sprinting zombies (ala "Dawn of the Dead" remake). Or the RE Pachinko trailer, where the zombies appear a little faster. Heck, Crimson Heads are the ultimate zombie threat.

I still have high hopes for RE5. The RE4 formula can work, as long as Capcom keeps RE true to its roots. Keep the storyline relevant. Tie up some loose ends. A strong story and likable characters, coupled with the RE4 gameplay, is a winner in my book.

Also, keep Chris true to his character (high moral kind of guy, very heroic, single minded). Sure he's buffed up, but it is kind of necessary considering he needs any kind of edge he can get versus a superhuman foe like Wesker.

And yes - limit the ninja flips and such. No more laser room somersaults. No more laughable dialogue (unless it is the original RE1). Actually, RE1 dialogue is better than most RE4 dialogue. Sad but true.

[Nomad9026]

I don't want to sound as a total Leonlover, though I like that character, but he was the best at police academy, so he wasn't so unexperienced and not trained in re2. Infact I think he was even bigger badass in re2, killing tyrant and Birkin with a big bullet wound in his cheast was cool. And I can't actually remember him being scared, in a licker sceen he was more amused than scared, in re2. But he sure showed more human feallings in 1998. What I'am trying to say is, when it comes to re games it pretty unwise to say that the characters are unrealistic all of them were a superheroes at some point. Anyway it is only up to you to like or dislike this or that character or gameplay aspect. I sure agree that re4 was not a very good re, but I just don't take it too serious turn off by brain and enjoy the best part of it - the gameplay

[beasley23803]

"Yes. I hate the game I bought twice. Brand new."

Then quit BSing about it then.

"So, it makes perfect sense to you that a faked glass eyeball, something only one guy has, can be used to open a door but puzzles are odd? In a medieval castle populated by paranoid folk possesed by bugs?"
Sure does, If they want to protect their Plaga Virus from invaders..like Ada? Then why not get some new Technology and make it harder for outsiders to have easy access. Didn't you say that btw.

"And no one said all the games have to be about Umbrella."
Clearly that's what you meant when you kept bringing up how the game was disconnected fro the series, as if that was a legitimate excuse as to why 4 was a bad RE game in your opinion.

"The president's daughter is kidnapped? How weak is that?"
The president's daughter of the world's most powerful nation is kidnapped by an insider and they plan to inject with a parasite and then send her back so she would infect the whole country. You know that's not so weak.

A big intimating Company makes a virus that turns people into zombies and a select few have to escape...-How cliche and weak is that.