Resident Evil 5 = Resident Evil 4 (Arguing in here! - Keep it civil)

[Biohazard EX]

^ You, my friend are right on! Especially when you said, "There are many fans out there who just love the series no matter what, even if the enemies were evil rosie o'donnell clones. Just as long as the story stays true to the series."

I believe we fall in that category! It amazes me how closed minded some so called fans are, that they would put off an entire series just because capcom wanted fresher ideads..

And btw, Nice Avatar!

So, in your opinion a true fan has to blindly like everything about a franchise, and accept every decision the developers make no matter how crappy it is, like a bunch of sheep?
I have an opinion of my own, and I'm not gonna pretend like I like something just to prove that I'm the biggest fan of something. I believe myself to be a fan of the Real Resident Evil. And I don't consider RE4 or RE5 to be Real Resident Evil games.
If you like it, that's fine. But don't say I'm not a fan just because I actually bothered to give Capcom a piece of criticism. Their writing is terrible. If you like Resident Evil for it's characters and story, then I don't understand how you can still like it, after RE4 and Umbrella Chronicles. Wesker was butchered in UC. He was scripted, and voiced over like a villain from a James Bond parody.

The fact is, Capcom is NOT staying true to the series. That's why I dislike what Resident Evil has become. It's not even Survival Horror anymore.

[beasley23803]

So, in your opinion a true fan has to blindly like everything about a franchise, and accept every decision the developers make no matter how crappy it is, like a bunch of sheep?
I have an opinion of my own, and I'm not gonna pretend like I like something just to prove that I'm the biggest fan of something.

Did I say that, NO! I said that I AM a true fan! I said that those who dont like the series simply because of enemies arent true fans. I didnt say I like everything Capcm threw out out there. I said as long as they stick with the story I dont care what enemies we have to face! ME-OW!

[Biohazard EX]

Oh, it's not just because of the enemies. I could've let that one thing go.
It's a large combination of many different things, small and large.

Things I didn't like about RE4:
-Enemies. To me Resident Evil is about T-Virus.
-Gameplay1: Over the Shoulder camera is good for action games, but one of the many reasons I fell in love with RE was the dramatic camera angles.
-Gameplay2: Jumping out Windows, constant backflips and acrobatics to surpass circus acts.
-Weapon System: If you're gonna upgrade weapons, do it realistically. Not 30 bullets in a small handgun clip, which you can magically reload faster.
-Merchant System: Buying weapons is for RPGs. But if it has to be included, at least not from a lame cockney guy who makes no sense at all.
-Over the top unrealistic conventions: Including, but not limited to Giant Salazar Statue walking around, backflipping to avoid a complicated grid of lasers, lava pit with fire spitting dragon heads.
-Bad voice overs: And I don't mean bad acting like in RE1. I mean, good voice overs done with silly, cartoony voices like Salazar and Saddler. I can't take it seriously.
-Silly design decisions: Ada sure looks hot in that dress. Except she's not undercover on a cruise ship. She's in a dirty village, where the smart thing to do would be to wear tactical gear. They actually made a 3D model of her with tactical gear (from Assignment Ada), so why they didn't make that her primary outfit, I'll never understand.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but the bottom line is, there were a lot of reasons for which I didn't like RE4. And although it seems like RE5 hasn't included AS many of those reasons, damage is done. The only way I'd pick up RE5, is if it refused to acknowledge that RE4 ever happened.

[beasley23803]

The only way I'd pick up RE5, is if it refused to acknowledge that RE4 ever happened.

I'm so glad you had all those other reasons..I thought you were just being soooo close minded. But yeah you're late too ..Did you see the first TGS 08 trailer? I'd say RE4 was pretty acknowledged. Chris said Kennedy & Ganados..

[Vogue_Dirge]

I don't really know about everyone else, but I think Resident Evil 5 is going to be a blast to play. Just take the game for what it is, another Resident Evil title. Capcom, in this market, had to beef up the RE franchise so it would compete among other titles like Bioshock, Gears of War, Mass Effect, MGS4, Fallout, etc. In games these days a lot of people want fast-paced action with overwhelming odds and engaging enemies. Franchises have to evolve and meet the needs of today in order to be recognized and embraced, sometimes leaving the original fans of the series in the dust. I don't blame Capcom for their decisons with RE4 and RE5.

[CODE_umb87]

^ well said

[Biohazard EX]

I don't really know about everyone else, but I think Resident Evil 5 is going to be a blast to play. Just take the game for what it is, another Resident Evil title. Capcom, in this market, had to beef up the RE franchise so it would compete among other titles like Bioshock, Gears of War, Mass Effect, MGS4, Fallout, etc. In games these days a lot of people want fast-paced action with overwhelming odds and engaging enemies. Franchises have to evolve and meet the needs of today in order to be recognized and embraced, sometimes leaving the original fans of the series in the dust. I don't blame Capcom for their decisons with RE4 and RE5.

Capcom should've done what Eidos did with Tomb Raider, started the Resident Evil canon from scratch, with RE4. Instead of placing it into the same universe with RE1, 2, 3 etc.
You say take it for what it is... Another Resident Evil title, but I think everyone who's ever played the classics, and got to know the series through the classics, picked up RE4, and whether they liked it or not, they said, "This doesn't feel like a Resident Evil title." So it's really not another Resident Evil title to me.
With RE0, yes, you can say, "Take it for what it is, another Resident Evil title."
I'm not saying RE4 is a bad game, or RE5 is a bad game. But if you want to go that way about it, then I think a better way of putting it would be, "Take it for what it is, another exciting Action game." Which I'm sure it will be.
Storyline just means too much to me, so I can't turn a blind eye to it.

I'm not trying to convert people, or get them to think the way I think. I just wish people understood where I'm coming from. There's quite a lot of people out there who disliked RE4, and will be disappointed with RE5. I simply took the big boy step and actually said, "I'm simply going to ignore it."
Resident Evil will never be like it was with the classics. And that's heart breaking to me. I would kill for a new horror game, which has zombies, static camera angles and tank controls.

[Dot50Cal]

do we need a countdown in october?

Yeah, really. I mean, I appreciate the effort and enthusiasm, but we just don't need this right now. The game is several months away now. I've renamed the topic.

Let's see... It's confirmed that RE5 will have Ganados, Merchant System, RE4's mechanics, lack of zombies and T-Virus, bad voice actor for Wesker... And obviously it's including RE4 and Umbrella Chronicles into its canon. It's a lost cause of a game. Not gonna bother with it.

I actually like his voice actor in this installment. At least, from what I've heard of him on the trailer, he sounds much better than Umbrella Chronicles with his Texas drawl.

K, have fun with Silent Hill: Homecoming. RE5 won't miss you guys.

Theres no need for those kinds of remarks, man. People disagree with things and have opinions. Please try to respect them (that goes for everyone).

[Vector]

Meh. I see people's reasons for why they dislike RE4, but I don't see how that could turn people away from RE5 without even playing it.
I think every game deserves a chance, let alone a new game in one of your favorite series.

It's like 5 months ago, me saying "I'm not gonna play MGS4" because of the new camera and controls, the 'blame it on the nanomachines' approach to the story and more of an emphasis on action than stealth. It's just unheard of to me...but, I digress, whatever makes you happy, I guess.

[Biohazard EX]

I gave enough reasons. It wasn't just one or two things. Every time I played RE4 I liked it less and less, until the time came, and I hated. And every time I played it I hated it more and more. Playing Umbrella Chronicles only underlined that hatred, and made me not want to play REmake anymore. Not want to play REmake. That's like... Blasphemy in my book.
I might not have played RE5, but I know enough about it to know what I'm gonna think of it. I don't like the new storyline, and like I said, as far as I'm concerned, I refuse to acknowledge it. I don't see why I should play RE5, when I know for a fact, I'm not going to like the storyline, or the concepts in it. The bird lady, the over the top action, Ganados... These are not the things that I want in Resident Evil.

[Yzak]

Meh. I see people's reasons for why they dislike RE4, but I don't see how that could turn people away from RE5 without even playing it.
I think every game deserves a chance, let alone a new game in one of your favorite series.

I really agree with this. Upon reading, I think I get the sort of >( from each side. Since from one end it sounds like they're already judging a game before giving it a try, because it resembles RE4. From the other, it's automatic defense because they enjoyed 4 and are looking forward to 5! Not a good combination.

As for me, I can't even really ... put the main series in a favorite order, other than 3 being my favorite. They've all had things that I loved and things that didn't interest me very much. Heck, I loved Survivor and am rebuying it one day soon with the other not-main series games, but then again, I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to games.

But yeah, it's a problem that stems from every end of things. As someone who actually does prefer the other games to 4, I did enjoy playing through 4 and liked it a lot. Like a lot of people mentioned, I have to be an echo here and say it part of why it's where it is for me is because of things like no zombies, no puzzles and the slightly more easy feeling in terms of weapons and ammo you get. I do agree though, the change of feeling in the game is probably due to keeping up with the rest of the games out there. Conformist, yes, but sales and popularity of RE4 shows that it works. It's the strive of successful, long-running game series.

I'm someone who enjoys both kind of views, though. I loved the camera angles in the old RE games, but I also had a really fun time with the over the shoulder thing. I think if RE4 went with over the shoulder and kept all the other oldschool elements, it would have still been awesome. Both camera angles have their advantages. Oldschool was the feeling that once you passed a location (that you can still see behind you) you're all good. Then seeing something LEAP IN FROM BEHIND makes you go AAAAAAAHHH because you weren't focusing on it much anymore. (or learned to after those first few times XD) Over the shoulder has its own advantage to that in that you can't see behind you. So if something's coming and you don't know, when it gets you you're going to be like AAAAAHHH.

Ganados to me weren't a step up from zombies. In each game environment they were annoying, occasionally scary, and as they came closer you went FFFFFFFFFF DIIIIIE. And they were both monsters for the type of games they were in. Oldschool RE had more narrow hallways and locations, making zombies tough! RE4 had faster moving default monsters in a wider environment. Both games had advanced enemies that were quicker, stronger and that took more to kill. Personally, if Ganados were just slightly mutated zombies (like CRIMSON HEADS which were insanely freaky and I would have loved something like that, since it goes with what RE4's environment would need while staying true to oldschool) a lot more people might have been happy. Or at least, have one less thing on a list of why RE4 takes away from that "feeling" so many people have for the game.

Story-wise, this is where I have to be more on the boat with people who didn't like RE4's. The story is probably the leading reason why it gets a lot of >( from fans of the older games. And I understand why! It was a little ... out there and not really connected to much of anything save for Leon and Ada's characters. And Wesker, in Seperate Ways later. Seperate Ways was what tied it together to the main story better, but even then, not solidly so. The fact that it needed SW for that rather than the main game doing that on its own is what kind of makes me go :/, personally.

RE5 looks like it's going to do a better job of that. I'm excited about Chris and Wesker, finally! And am looking forward to things like That Special Jill Mention From the Trailer. I'll see if I like it when I actually get to play it, but I like what I am seeing so far, especially story-wise. Enough that I am saving up for a PS3 by its release time just so I can play it

But yeah, I have no idea where I am going with this now. XD tl;dr, calm down! You're all entitled to your opinions, and should be respectful to everyone else's if you want them to do the same for you, so if you go in angry, you're going to get an angry response. People don't have to love and fawn over every title released for the sake of what's it called, but people also don't have to demean people who enjoyed titles that they had a lot of problems with. Just so long as you don't ruin the whole franchise experience (and reason that you're at this forum) for yourself getting upset over it.

[Biohazard EX]

What really pushed me over the line was Umbrella Chronicles, though. Because, okay, RE4, I didn't like many of its conventions... But UC felt like a slap in the face to any classic RE fan. First of all, it felt like they were saying, "No, you don't have to bother playing REmake, RE0, and RE3, just play this. Don't bother with those silly Tank Controls." Which is, like I said, a bit insulting.

I think that if anyone got into Resident Evil after RE4, and they want to see the backstory for themselves, they should play the older games, not have a quickie with Umbrella Chronicles.
Secondly, Sergei... I felt that he was a pretty weak character, that they just kind of threw in there to be Wesker's antagonist. But, the fact that they decided to place him everywhere, and basically modify the storyline didn't sit well with me at all. Because now it's like I have to pretend that he was there when I was playing RE0, or RE1, that he'd just been there recently and took the underdeveloped TALOS. Which is another thing that I hated. Now, I'm also supposed to pretend that aside from working on T-002, they were also developing this other thing in that lab?

They've established the storyline, now my mind is set to know the things I know, and to speculate the things I don't know. And they're saying, "Okay, we're gonna put something else here, that never existed before. And you're gonna pretend like it was there the whole time." Same thing with the Red Queen. Now we're supposed to pretend that she was in charge of the Arklay laboratory and that she was the one who set off the self destruct system. Although AI, she is, essentially, a new character, another one that we're supposed to pretend like she was there the whole time.

Another thing was the mystery... We know that Wesker injected himself with a mysterious virus from Birkin, and we know that it allowed him to come back to life. But we don't have to see how it happens. We don't need to see how Ada escaped Raccoon city, or how Wesker escaped the mansion, or how he was revived. These things were somwhat of a mystery, and it was cool. Because sometimes you have to preserve a little mystery and let the fans speculate some things. Instead they spoonfed us this information.

Lastly the storyline and narrative, which is why I have lost faith in Resident Evil. Because, let's face it, the story in UC was written really badly. Wesker's dialogue and voice overs were terrible. And forget the dialogue, what about monologue? Wesker talks to himself now? I'm sorry, but Wesker was my favorite character, and they butchered him in UC. And, again, a bunch of new information that they thought would be cool. I just thought it was terrible. Like the idea that the Tyrants were Sergei clones. Or the hint that Wesker was expecting to transform into a monster himself.
Please don't tell me that you're not going to be disappointed if at the end of RE5, Wesker suddenly transforms into this giant ugly tyrant with tentacles that spits worm eggs at you.

Yes, both RE4 and UC were fun video games. And I'm sure I'd love them if I was a casual RE gamer. But like I said, Resident Evil's storyline is sacred to me. The best possible analogy I can give you are those real hardcore Star Wars fans, that lived and breathed the original trilogy, and how disappointed they were with the prequels, going to see each prequel only to come out saying, "Damn you, George Lucas!"

The only difference is, I learn from patterns. If I didn't like the previous two RE installations, I guarantee you, I will not enjoy RE5. I'm simply saving myself the trouble. Because, as much as I try to be an optimist, I'm a realist. I don't for a second assume that RE5 is going to completely turn me around and change my mind about the way the series is going. It's not, and I know it's not. I'm not going to sit here, and hang onto this pathetic glimmer of hope, saying, "The next one's gonna fix everything."
Which is what some people are doing. Believe me, I've talked to people who said, "I think RE5 is going to deny the existence of RE4. They're gonna pretend like it didn't happen." I'm serious. This was before the new trailers of course, but you get my point.

My problem with RE5, is that it's pretty evident that they ARE trying to involve the history of Resident Evil with the elements of RE4. Which is great for those who liked RE4, and UC, and were looking forward to RE5, Ganados or not.

But, people say that they didn't like that RE4 barely mentions anything from the prequels. And my problem is that it mentions SOMETHING. I think RE4's storyline and conventions would've been great for a stand-alone game, a whole new canon. But I don't want them in the same canon as the Resident Evil that I know and love. So the fact that they're actually trying to involve the RE that I know and love into RE5, is only making it WORSE for me.

Like I said, I simply don't want to acknowledge that Las Plagas, and all the other storyline aspects of RE4 coexist in the same universe with my Resident Evil.
And to tell me, "Give RE5 a chance" is like me telling someone who didn't like RE4, but is looking forward to RE5, "Sell RE4 and give up on the series."
That is, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give RE5 a chance. I'm just saying that from what I've seen (and I've seen enough), I know I'm not going to enjoy RE5.
Right now, I'm at a point where I'm slowly starting to forget things from RE4 and UC, and I'm happy for it. To me, that new chapter in the storyline is getting erased, and only the games I loved are getting preserved. If I give RE5 a chance, it's gonna shove me back into the new storyline. And frankly, I don't want anything to do with the new storyline. I denounced it, in order to preserve the love that I had for the classic storyline.

And to say I'm not a real fan just because I won't play it is an insult. It is BECAUSE I'm a real fan, that I won't play it. Different people have different thresholds. I simply learned from experience that exposing myself to the new storyline makes me dislike the old storyline, which I can't allow. And yes, sometimes I wish I wasn't so picky, that I actually liked RE4, but I am the way I am. Not every fan of RE has to enjoy the same things and be the same way. Some people prove that they're fans by collecting action figures, and every kind of possible collectible you can think of. Some people have a second copy of every game, still factory sealed. Some people choose to put in ovetime, playing each game over and over and trying to commit every bit of information to memory, I was one of those people. But now I have become a person that completely shut out the new chapters of the series in order to preserve the love for the old chapters, and like I said, for this, I consider myself more of a fan than I would've been otherwise.

Wew... So much text... Sorry bout that.

[Vector]

^ Well, let's just say that I guess I understand your reasoning, but I respectfully disagree with it.

[adamthegrave]

What really pushed me over the line was Umbrella Chronicles, though. Because, okay, RE4, I didn't like many of its conventions... But UC felt like a slap in the face to any classic RE fan. First of all, it felt like they were saying, "No, you don't have to bother playing REmake, RE0, and RE3, just play this. Don't bother with those silly Tank Controls." Which is, like I said, a bit insulting.

I think that if anyone got into Resident Evil after RE4, and they want to see the backstory for themselves, they should play the older games, not have a quickie with Umbrella Chronicles.
Secondly, Sergei... I felt that he was a pretty weak character, that they just kind of threw in there to be Wesker's antagonist. But, the fact that they decided to place him everywhere, and basically modify the storyline didn't sit well with me at all. Because now it's like I have to pretend that he was there when I was playing RE0, or RE1, that he'd just been there recently and took the underdeveloped TALOS. Which is another thing that I hated. Now, I'm also supposed to pretend that aside from working on T-002, they were also developing this other thing in that lab?

They've established the storyline, now my mind is set to know the things I know, and to speculate the things I don't know. And they're saying, "Okay, we're gonna put something else here, that never existed before. And you're gonna pretend like it was there the whole time." Same thing with the Red Queen. Now we're supposed to pretend that she was in charge of the Arklay laboratory and that she was the one who set off the self destruct system. Although AI, she is, essentially, a new character, another one that we're supposed to pretend like she was there the whole time.

Another thing was the mystery... We know that Wesker injected himself with a mysterious virus from Birkin, and we know that it allowed him to come back to life. But we don't have to see how it happens. We don't need to see how Ada escaped Raccoon city, or how Wesker escaped the mansion, or how he was revived. These things were somwhat of a mystery, and it was cool. Because sometimes you have to preserve a little mystery and let the fans speculate some things. Instead they spoonfed us this information.

Lastly the storyline and narrative, which is why I have lost faith in Resident Evil. Because, let's face it, the story in UC was written really badly. Wesker's dialogue and voice overs were terrible. And forget the dialogue, what about monologue? Wesker talks to himself now? I'm sorry, but Wesker was my favorite character, and they butchered him in UC. And, again, a bunch of new information that they thought would be cool. I just thought it was terrible. Like the idea that the Tyrants were Sergei clones. Or the hint that Wesker was expecting to transform into a monster himself.
Please don't tell me that you're not going to be disappointed if at the end of RE5, Wesker suddenly transforms into this giant ugly tyrant with tentacles that spits worm eggs at you.

Yes, both RE4 and UC were fun video games. And I'm sure I'd love them if I was a casual RE gamer. But like I said, Resident Evil's storyline is sacred to me. The best possible analogy I can give you are those real hardcore Star Wars fans, that lived and breathed the original trilogy, and how disappointed they were with the prequels, going to see each prequel only to come out saying, "Damn you, George Lucas!"

The only difference is, I learn from patterns. If I didn't like the previous two RE installations, I guarantee you, I will not enjoy RE5. I'm simply saving myself the trouble. Because, as much as I try to be an optimist, I'm a realist. I don't for a second assume that RE5 is going to completely turn me around and change my mind about the way the series is going. It's not, and I know it's not. I'm not going to sit here, and hang onto this pathetic glimmer of hope, saying, "The next one's gonna fix everything."
Which is what some people are doing. Believe me, I've talked to people who said, "I think RE5 is going to deny the existence of RE4. They're gonna pretend like it didn't happen." I'm serious. This was before the new trailers of course, but you get my point.

My problem with RE5, is that it's pretty evident that they ARE trying to involve the history of Resident Evil with the elements of RE4. Which is great for those who liked RE4, and UC, and were looking forward to RE5, Ganados or not.

But, people say that they didn't like that RE4 barely mentions anything from the prequels. And my problem is that it mentions SOMETHING. I think RE4's storyline and conventions would've been great for a stand-alone game, a whole new canon. But I don't want them in the same canon as the Resident Evil that I know and love. So the fact that they're actually trying to involve the RE that I know and love into RE5, is only making it WORSE for me.

Like I said, I simply don't want to acknowledge that Las Plagas, and all the other storyline aspects of RE4 coexist in the same universe with my Resident Evil.
And to tell me, "Give RE5 a chance" is like me telling someone who didn't like RE4, but is looking forward to RE5, "Sell RE4 and give up on the series."
That is, I'm not saying that you shouldn't give RE5 a chance. I'm just saying that from what I've seen (and I've seen enough), I know I'm not going to enjoy RE5.
Right now, I'm at a point where I'm slowly starting to forget things from RE4 and UC, and I'm happy for it. To me, that new chapter in the storyline is getting erased, and only the games I loved are getting preserved. If I give RE5 a chance, it's gonna shove me back into the new storyline. And frankly, I don't want anything to do with the new storyline. I denounced it, in order to preserve the love that I had for the classic storyline.

And to say I'm not a real fan just because I won't play it is an insult. It is BECAUSE I'm a real fan, that I won't play it. Different people have different thresholds. I simply learned from experience that exposing myself to the new storyline makes me dislike the old storyline, which I can't allow. And yes, sometimes I wish I wasn't so picky, that I actually liked RE4, but I am the way I am. Not every fan of RE has to enjoy the same things and be the same way. Some people prove that they're fans by collecting action figures, and every kind of possible collectible you can think of. Some people have a second copy of every game, still factory sealed. Some people choose to put in ovetime, playing each game over and over and trying to commit every bit of information to memory, I was one of those people. But now I have become a person that completely shut out the new chapters of the series in order to preserve the love for the old chapters, and like I said, for this, I consider myself more of a fan than I would've been otherwise.

Wew... So much text... Sorry bout that.

ive been reading your stuff

all i got to say is , if you dont like Resident Evil -games just dont play them no more just go to gamestop trade them all and be happy just go play Silent lame
game and see thats any good then

[Yzak]

Really? To me, UC seemed like more of a game for the RE fans, something they would play and appreciate. Not something released for people who never played the games (or at the very least, a doorway, saying "this is a taste of the series, go check out the games) Since UC itself had ... nothing too big, story wise. The best example being Ada. If somebody who never played RE played her part and saw it they'd be like "... WAT" because there was no real explanation for RE2. Alternately, anybody who might have went "... WAT" might have also went "I am curious about these circumstances and wish to subscribe to your video game!" There's no real explanation for anything in UC, and you'd only get what's happening if you're familiar with the games - so I don't think it's a game that tells people not to play the full games featured, but more of a game released for people who already know the series, giving them more information and story that a lot of fans ask for and want. Maybe that's just me though. XD

Though I'm not sure I agree with the implications of 'casual gamers' and whatever that means there and enjoying RE4. RE's story is something that most fans adore - myself included. It's not blasphemy to the first games if people enjoyed RE4. I mentioned that story-wise, I found it to be really weak so I am with many people there! But it had its good points, so I enjoyed it with a little of this and a little of that, though it's definitely not my favorite game. But the main point is that with the "real fan" term being thrown around like it is, it's ... sort of making everyone go >O. Because we're all fans to our own standards. You're not "not a true fan" if you hate RE4 and don't want to touch RE5 with a ten foot pole, but you're not "not a true fan" if RE4 is your favorite game, either. So if people imply that you aren't one based on your opinions regardless of where you fall there, then. Well fail, implying person. Everyone has their own standards for that sort of thing, so applying one to everyone is demeaning to everybody else. And then if everybody else is doing it it's like U!!! NO U!!! and that's just not fun.

Please don't tell me that you're not going to be disappointed if at the end of RE5, Wesker suddenly transforms into this giant ugly tyrant with tentacles that spits worm eggs at you.

I would in fact possibly lose faith in humanity if that happened. SOB.