The Central "Jill Valentine" Discussion Topic

[valentinesdead?]

RE5 pretty much changed a lot of what I've come to know in RE, such as Spencer's motives and the entire story behind Wesker.

While not trying to drill you on why you don't like RE5's plot "changes," but, correct me if I"m wrong, where exactly, in any previous RE game, has Spencer's true "motives" been revealed to us, the player? One can come up with theories and ideas for his motivations, but Spencer was nothing more than a name for most of the series. He was purposely left mysterious for whatever reason by Capcom, but I see nothing prior in the games to contridict what Spencer tells Wesker. It's the same for the Wesker children program. There's nothing that contridicts it prior to RE5.

It's more or less just filling in the blanks(BOMBSHELL blanks, but still blanks). Whether a person thinks they have a better idea or theory than what Capcom did, falls under the opinion category, but the way I look at it, from RE1 to RE5(with RE0 thrown in somewhere, lol), we learn little by little more and more about the conspirarcy between the original three founders of Umbrella(RECVX, RE0 being the prime suspects here), and its specific goals. RE5 is the culmination and conclusion to the Umbrella story threads. For me, it ties up most of the character motivations with a nice, neat bow(Chris, Jill, Wesker, Spencer, the purpose of Progenitor).

While I agree with you about RE4 on the *not serious but entertaining story to move along a really fun game*, I just find it ironic that you dislike RE5's story on the basis that it *Failed* because it took itself seriously and built itself off past RE games, while RE4's craptastic plot(While entertaining certainly) didn't contribute barely anything to the series cannon and overarching plot threads. So, judging by what you said, you're saying Capcom should have taken RE5, and any future sequels, down the same road storywise as RE4? As long as it doesn't "change what you come to know about RE" right? Well, RE4 did that anyway, but good luck ever trying to tie up the past games sticky plot points seriously with RE4's approach to storytelling and writing. I apperciate the fact that the characters in RE5 acted realistically to their character parameters, unlike Re4 where everyone just a tool for one liners and cheesy puns, with almost zero emotion or actual drama taking place(but RE4's goal, as Shinji Mikami stated, wasn't story or horror, but re-invigorating the gameplay. I think some fans miss that point--it wasn't really to add any new old story elements to the cannon, except the existence of Las Plagas).

Like I said earlier, I'm not disputing with you about if you liked RE5's revealations or approach. I agree about RE5 being the lesser of the two gameplay wise, and chances are, I doubt you would have liked RE5 anyways if it taken the "add nothing, don't be serious" approach since the gameplay isn't as polished(I wouldn't either). But that's not my point. Just wondering if there is anyplace you know of that I don't where Capcom said something different about Spencer or Wesker that actually contridicts what was revealed in RE5?

[Alexia_Ashford]

No, no, no. Don't pull this "Jill's Boob is just a biased asshole when it comes to RE4, therefore his logic is invalid" crap. In post 1725 of this thread, you stated:

"That is single-handedly the most ridiculous and unrealistic plot element RE has ever done. By far not the only unrealistic and ridiculous thing, but definitely the most."

After having stated that, you are offering your opinion (subjective), yet the way your sentence is worded confirms that to you, the RE5 volcano scene is 100% the most ridiculous and unrealistic plot element in RE ever.

I offered a rebuttal, with substantial examples, and you decided to instead play it off as me "frothing" at the mouth, being an utter prick - blinded by RE4 rage - attacking your subjectivity without remorse or an ounce of consideration toward your opinion.

WRONG.

Granted, I shouldn't have said things like "precious RE4," but I was caught in the moment and was also reflecting on a post you made in another thread where you spoke of RE4 being better than RE5, since RE4 made no attempt at story whereas RE5 butchered the story. That logic made absolutely no sense to me, but that is not for this thread.

Anyway, I apologize if I came off as being pompous by saying such a thing, but I wasn't trying to blast you or Beauregard here in this thread. I merely wanted to beat you both over the head with other moments (mainly the lava level in RE4) being much dumber than (or at least on par with) the ending to RE5.

But your response confirms to me that I am right. Whether or not you think I am an uncouth hooligan who hates ALL DIFFERENT opinions other than my own...well, that is your own deal.

Bottom line: RE4 volcano level is far and away more ridiculous and more unrealistic than the RE5 volcano scene. And yes, I know it is a video game and a franchise with a history of unrealistic moments. But that doesn't mean we can't debate such things.

Again, it's my opinion that crash landing into a live volcano is more ridiculous than a boss fight in a lava room. You're not going to change that. And I find RE4 much more fun than RE5, gameplay wise, and RE5 pretty much changed a lot of what I've come to know in RE, such as Spencer's motives and the entire story behind Wesker. I didn't like it. I find it easier to play a game with no story but that I find tacky and amusing, than a game where it's trying to be serious with a storyline I really dislike. I find it in general, a lot more fun. I've never said you're an uncouth hooligan, because I do not believe you to be so. I just think you get passionate about debates, but there's no need to talk down to me just because I prefer one game over another.

[Stu]

While it is fruitless and ridiculous to debate such things, it beats trolling the site primarily to make snide remarks while polishing the "internet toughguy" routine.

How shocking. The most harmless post made in this thread in a long time and it STILL gets thrown back with venom.

If you've anything along the lines of this to say, you know where my profile page is (and by all means, back up your comments). You don't need to further derail the topic at hand with such bullshit do you? No? Moving on then...

[Jill's Boob]

While it is fruitless and ridiculous to debate such things, it beats trolling the site primarily to make snide remarks while polishing the "internet toughguy" routine.

[Stu]

Hilarious that a RESIDENT EVIL forum should have to descend into a debate about realism in the series!

[News Bot]

CV's graveyard scene is much more unbelievable and dumber then RE4's lava room or RE5's volcano fight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the T-Virus could only infect living things, and not bring the fuc**** dead to life. Also, even if it CAN bring them back to life, WTF infected them (considering they were BURRIED and problably in COFFINS)?

They weren't buried in coffins (they were prisoners and I doubt Umbrella was that compassionate) and the T-virus has limited ability to revive dead subjects. RE3 also had grave-rising zombies.

[Rock it.]

CV's graveyard scene is much more unbelievable and dumber then RE4's lava room or RE5's volcano fight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the T-Virus could only infect living things, and not bring the fuc**** dead to life. Also, even if it CAN bring them back to life, WTF infected them (considering they were BURRIED and problably in COFFINS)?

[Yzak]

Now this is basically two ridiculous, unrealistic things in two games, and two people arguing over which one is more ridiculous (which comes down to matter of personal opinion which both are entitled to have). Come on.

Look guys! Topic!

[Jill's Boob]

I'm not even going to bother to reply to this because of the amount of obvious bias in your post against RE4. I can imagine you frothing at the mouth with the amount of hatred for the game in that one post. RE4 is far from my favourite RE game. I don't even count it as a Resident Evil game. I don't dislike RE5, I simply do not enjoy it and think the volcano segment is dumb. I can't enter a subjective debate with someone who feels the need to get ratty with comments like "your precious RE4, blehh" to someone who has a different opinion from yours, when I was putting across a subjective point of view about a game. All of RE is ridiculous. Is this news to anybody? It's down to personal opinion which you think is the MOST ridiculous.

No, no, no. Don't pull this "Jill's Boob is just a biased asshole when it comes to RE4, therefore his logic is invalid" crap. In post 1725 of this thread, you stated:

"That is single-handedly the most ridiculous and unrealistic plot element RE has ever done. By far not the only unrealistic and ridiculous thing, but definitely the most."

After having stated that, you are offering your opinion (subjective), yet the way your sentence is worded confirms that to you, the RE5 volcano scene is 100% the most ridiculous and unrealistic plot element in RE ever.

I offered a rebuttal, with substantial examples, and you decided to instead play it off as me "frothing" at the mouth, being an utter prick - blinded by RE4 rage - attacking your subjectivity without remorse or an ounce of consideration toward your opinion.

WRONG.

Granted, I shouldn't have said things like "precious RE4," but I was caught in the moment and was also reflecting on a post you made in another thread where you spoke of RE4 being better than RE5, since RE4 made no attempt at story whereas RE5 butchered the story. That logic made absolutely no sense to me, but that is not for this thread.

Anyway, I apologize if I came off as being pompous by saying such a thing, but I wasn't trying to blast you or Beauregard here in this thread. I merely wanted to beat you both over the head with other moments (mainly the lava level in RE4) being much dumber than (or at least on par with) the ending to RE5.

But your response confirms to me that I am right. Whether or not you think I am an uncouth hooligan who hates ALL DIFFERENT opinions other than my own...well, that is your own deal.

Bottom line: RE4 volcano level is far and away more ridiculous and more unrealistic than the RE5 volcano scene. And yes, I know it is a video game and a franchise with a history of unrealistic moments. But that doesn't mean we can't debate such things.

[Yzak]

Considering RE is a decade old, it's kind of expected. Not to mention they never came up with any kind of ANNOUNCEMENT that RE was going to be realistic in every aspect ever. It's a game, no games are 100% realistic. Not in ways like the ones recently explained, anyway. They try to do a good job explaining the storyline and giving the characters depth. And the games DO have lots of realistic aspects, but expecting all of it to be that way is just ... :|a So I don't see a huge point in discussing and debating something that applies to all of the RE games. I mean, some things are laughably ridic, but RE itself has always been something with that vibe. From the very first wacky mansion with tons of weird elaborate puzzles and oh snap ZOMBIES game.

[Det. Beauregard]

All of RE is ridiculous. Is this news to anybody? It's down to personal opinion which you think is the MOST ridiculous.

I have to agree, to an extent. Jill's Boob's comments on RE4 made me realize, after another playthrough of the game (which I do love, and regardless of the cheese think it is far more fun than RE5) how ridiculous it all really is. The closed lava rooms, Salazar's pit and Leon's physics-defying grappling hook, the laser room... it goes on and on. I think my favorite has to be Ada's leap off of the platform into the helicopter, though... I laughed out loud after that one!

I suppose I should have altered my original statement to read "the volcano sequence climax of RE5 is the most ridiculous thing that has ever happened in RE, excluding anything from RE4."

There are so many other hilarious, unrealistic, science-defying things about the other RE games, too (although to a lesser extent than RE4). Some that weren't mentioned previously include:

- Wesker catching a rocket in RE5; looked awesome but wow that was funny!
- How exactly does Wesker "come back to life" with Birkin's magic virus after the tyrant impaled him in a manner that would have decimated most of his vital organs and, more importantly, severed his spinal cord?
- How can Claire and Steve survive outdoors in Antarctica wearing the clothes that they were at the time?

I suppose I'll give up trying to prove the accuracy of RE through science. I will say, however, that Capcom at least attempts to explain the biological aspects of the series, as opposed to the physics-defying rocket catching and grappling hooks.

I think it would be fun to name as much ridiculous, science-defying nonsense as possible within the series. A book could probably be written about it...

[Alexia_Ashford]

So what about Bravo team surviving a helicopter crash in RE0? Or Steve and Claire surviving a PLANE crash in RECV?



For someone who constantly sings RE4 Wii's praises, you must play that game often. Did you suddenly forget the lava area? Leon is in the lava room, fighting the Gigantes, while running over steel grating that is full of holes, allowing full exposure to all of the elements. The Gigante can fall through the biggest opening, yes, but still the room is completely subjected to the extreme (fatal) heat of being that close to active LAVA. Just look below Leon's feet to see the active, flowing volcanic magma.

Also, what about the part where Leon is navigating to or from that room? The part where he...hahaha, it's so fu**ing stupid that it is funny...where he shoots ganados who are operating mobile stone dragons that breath fire/lava?

I posted 2 videos in my previous post to refresh yours and Beauregard's memories, though you shouldn't need it considering that you play RE4 Wii often. I haven't played RE4 in 2 years and I still recall all of the eye-rollingly far-fetched bullshit from that title, of which there is plenty.

So your complaint that fighting inside an active volcano is hands down the dumbest thing ever...ahem, it was done before in your precious RE4. But that's not currently the cool thing to bash, now is it?

EDIT: Forgot to mention...Chris, Sheva, and Wesker are at least in the volcano near the top opening, allowing them to be exposed to the atmosphere and the heat would be ventilated (they would still die). But fu**ing RE4 Leon is inside of a subterranean cave with no exposure to the atmosphere nor any kind of sufficient ventilation, while being meters from active magma. Not only would the heat/vapors from the magma cause him to have insufficient oxygen, the magnification of the temperature from being in a poorly ventilated space would melt his flesh.



Really? It is the most unrealistic, ridiculous thing EVER in all of RE? Not:

- A singing, opera-loving leech man dressed in mage robes?
- Rebecca Chambers' MASSIVE education completed within the span of 18 years?
- Salazar's suddenly mobile statue? Just how do Spaniards construct a granite statue in the visage of a hundred year old Napoleonic midget, and still have it possess a robotic endoskeleton that is able to mobilize the stone mass (stone being solid and heavy beyond your wildest dreams)? Where did they get such technology in such a primitive castle, anyway?
- Leon's descent through Salazar's trap door? If you take Physics 101, you will realize that the scene is easily the most unbelievable thing you have ever witnessed in your entire life.
- Leon's laser hallway scene? No human has even 0.1% chance of performing either the physical contortion, or the mental split-second calculation of determining where each mobile laser (on either side of his peripheral vision) would place itself?
- A teleporting merchant?
- A waverunner magically being fueled up and readily available on a remote island? Just how did it get there (Ada and Leon arrived via boat, yet Ada still had the teddy bear key to it)? And no waverunner has enough fuel to carry Leon & Ashley from aforementioned remote island back to the mainland.
- Ada jumping off the platform at the end of RE4, head first, over the top of a previously unheard helicopter? And yet she not only did not land smack in the middle of the rotor, but she managed to be sitting inside the helo, buckled up and smiling within milliseconds of said dive. While the helicopter was ascending straight upward in the exact location where she had leapt over the edge.
- Leon's hair fop? (My vote goes to that one, followed closely by his wearing of mascara.)



I guarantee that a stationary helicopter rotating along a directional axis is much faster than the speed of a human running down a hallway. Bullets also happen to be faster than forward leg-propelled motion.

Shooting behind her? If I stand still, and start firing an automatic weapon behind you, and you take off running at an angle perpendicular to my own, and I rotate at the hip in your general direction, the bullets will catch you within seconds.

As for Claire's matrix moves...she saved that for the part where she drops her pistol and then manages to subsequently drop her body at a rate faster than the pistol to catch it as she hits the ground and shoots the conveniently placed explosive barrel. (#1 - That may be the most ridiculous and unrealistic in RE. Ever. #2 - Who the hell keeps explosive barrels inside a multi-story building?)

I'm not even going to bother to reply to this because of the amount of obvious bias in your post against RE4. I can imagine you frothing at the mouth with the amount of hatred for the game in that one post. RE4 is far from my favourite RE game. I don't even count it as a Resident Evil game. I don't dislike RE5, I simply do not enjoy it and think the volcano segment is dumb. I can't enter a subjective debate with someone who feels the need to get ratty with comments like "your precious RE4, blehh" to someone who has a different opinion from yours, when I was putting across a subjective point of view about a game. All of RE is ridiculous. Is this news to anybody? It's down to personal opinion which you think is the MOST ridiculous.

[kevstah2004]

Wasn't he? I know it was always unclear, but in the video when he introduces himself to Wesker and Birkin and this opera singing starts one can notice Marcus' mouth moving; his body movement (in both intro and the video below) also suggests that he's singing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=PL&hl=pl&v=cM3-bYCeIpk

And about those unrealistic things... Do we really need to discuss realism in a game about a virus creating zombies and monsters? in a game where most of protagonists are children prodigy? where Jill can take a rocket in the face and still survive? where Claire, Steve, Rodrigo and Alfred happen to be the only persons who weren't infected on Rockfort Island even though they were all there when the island was attacked? where an old dead man can be ressurected (and rejuvenate) thanks to infected leech?
Even excluding RE4 and its over the top scenes there are still lots of completely unrealistic things in the entire series, RE5 fight on top of volcano is just one of them.

Who was that standing behind his head after it drops near noticed it before at 0:27.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcd3Fz4ARN0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZe3pJVgVho

[Vector]

And about those unrealistic things... Do we really need to discuss realism in a game about a virus creating zombies and monsters? in a game where most of protagonists are children prodigy? where Jill can take a rocket in the face and still survive? where Claire, Steve, Rodrigo and Alfred happen to be the only persons who weren't infected on Rockfort Island even though they were all there when the island was attacked? where an old dead man can be ressurected (and rejuvenate) thanks to infected leech?
Even excluding RE4 and its over the top scenes there are still lots of completely unrealistic things in the entire series, RE5 fight on top of volcano is just one of them.

This, this and...this. Couldn't have put it better myself. I think it's time this argument gets put to rest.

[Mr_Zombie]

Wasn't he? I know it was always unclear, but in the video when he introduces himself to Wesker and Birkin and this opera singing starts one can notice Marcus' mouth moving; his body movement (in both intro and the video below) also suggests that he's singing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=PL&hl=pl&v=cM3-bYCeIpk

And about those unrealistic things... Do we really need to discuss realism in a game about a virus creating zombies and monsters? in a game where most of protagonists are children prodigy? where Jill can take a rocket in the face and still survive? where Claire, Steve, Rodrigo and Alfred happen to be the only persons who weren't infected on Rockfort Island even though they were all there when the island was attacked? where an old dead man can be ressurected (and rejuvenate) thanks to infected leech?
Even excluding RE4 and its over the top scenes there are still lots of completely unrealistic things in the entire series, RE5 fight on top of volcano is just one of them.